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Microsoft to by Minecraft
LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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NiteHackr said:

It should be worse, as Minecraft is a ripoff from it. Now I understand how people are inspired by other games, but this is more than inspired, it was almost an exact copy, in fact, he may have even used source code from it then added to it. I was amazed when I played Inifiminer, I was like, WTF?! Now Notch done some nice things to it, absolutely, but he done some nice things to it... including changing the name, but it wasn't his idea and it is more than an inspiration in my books.

It's no big secret that Minecraft was based on Infiniminer. Notch has always said so himself from the very beginning. His reason for creating Minecraft was that he discovered Ininiminer shortly before the development of it was discontinued and so started his own version of it.

edit:

whining about minecraft building on infiniminer is a bit silly. minecraft won because more people liked it better for various reason.

If inifiniminer really wanted to win, it'd have been more polished. That's all I'm saying. MC won because people liked it more. and getting down on minecraft because of that is really dumb.

There was never really competition between them. Development of Infiniminer ended before Notch even started on Minecraft,

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I bet the Infiniminer developer is kicking himself for not thinking of doing that discounted alpha release gimmick and drawing attention to himself... :P He could be a billionaire by now.

Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

I love when the Infiniminer vs. Minecraft debate ignites because the only basis for calling Minecraft a rip-off of Infiniminer is in a mechanic that Ken Silverman developed on his own accord over a decade prior. I even made a video about it: http://www.pixelships.com/adg/epf009.html

Basically, having a world made up of cubes does not inherently make your game a rip-off of any other game. That would be like saying Final Fantasy is a rip-off of Dragon Warrior because both games use tilemaps. :P

Also, I've played Infiniminer. It's very much NOT the same as Minecraft. The only similarities is that they both have cubical worlds, they both have pixel-art style graphics, and you can mine stuff in both games. That's about where the similarities end. Infiniminer is a team-based multiplayer game about finding resources and getting them back to a drop point, with each team member choosing a class and each class having a unique ability which can help in finding resources or protecting your team. Minecraft was originally just a computerized block-placing program, technically not even a game, but then evolved into a survival adventure of sorts.

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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I remember that program Kris, almost forgot about it. I think Ken may have even released the source for it on his website.

As for Minecraft, I do own it and have enjoyed playing it a little... I tend to get bored with it faster than most I think. I still think it was more than mere inspiration, but that's all water under the bridge now. He certainly done a nice job on the game for sure. It's actually inspiring to think that you could end up that successful.

It could be a bad thing that Microsoft bought it as well. I just remembered that it was Microsoft that bought out Caligari's trueSpace, then shortly after, killed it. My favourite 3D rendering package was made free, but development on it has ended and it has all but died. :(

---
“I love you too.” - last words of Wanda Roy

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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The only real benefit MS has in purchasing Mojang is to pick up the audience. If they immediately drop minecraft, they just threw 2.5bn down the toilet because the audience wont be nearly as perceptive to anything that comes after.

For the near term, I see no real changes. near-mid, maybe some ms influence will be seen[1], mid-long for sure some influence[2] will be felt.

That said, maybe they'll move realms over to Azure right away. Might not be a bad idea tbh.

References

  1. what those will be, I have no good idea
  2. could be more developers, imposed features/changes, or sequel?

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

If they immediately drop minecraft, they just threw 2.5bn down the toilet because the audience wont be nearly as perceptive to anything that comes after.

Minecraft 2: Return of The Farlands ;D

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Minecraft One (By Microsoft Studios)

The blocks are proprietary. You need to buy a pickup license to pickup each kind of block. Each pickup block license is $0.99. You need to buy a drop license to drop each kind of block. Drop block licenses start at $1.99, and the price varies by the type of block.

Basic objects can be crafted. Advanced objects must be purchased from the Microsoft store. Prices and availability varies. You need a FREE Live account to login to the store.

The Standard license costs $30 and limits your world to 1000 blocks. For $50 you can increase your world to 2000 blocks! For infinite worlds you must purchase a Professional license for $500. Yearly upgrades are required to keep playing. You can upgrade a Standard license for $15. To upgrade a Professional license please contact your local Microsoft products distributor for a quote.

Only one avatar comes with any license. You can purchase extra avatars against your license for $15 each. Avatars are not transferable between licensed worlds. Multiplayer is supported, but players can only play with avatars licensed for the world they are in. Contact Microsoft for a quote on infinite avatars or for world transferable avatars!

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Meanwhile, the job cuts continue.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

bamccaig said:

Minecraft One (By Microsoft Studios)

There's no way Microsoft could ever get away with that kind of stunt because every version of Minecraft ever made is readily available for download and the modding community is reliant on having access to older versions. If Microsoft prevented the download of older versions, the modding community would fall apart, which would rapidly kill a huge chunk of the interest in Minecraft, making Microsoft's 2.5 Billion acquisition one of the biggest wastes of money ever in the gaming industry. :P

And again, other games would rise up from the ashes to replace Minecraft. Microsoft has very little wiggle-room and could very easily and VERY quickly destroy the Minecraft user base.

TBH though, it makes me curious how they figure they can make back that 2.5 Billion... Maybe selling more copies on other platforms to people who don't mind owning the same game on multiple platforms? More merchandising perhaps? Paid-entry competitions? *shrugs*

...nooooooooo... I know what they intend to do... MAKE THE GAME FREE AND SELL ADVERTISING SPACE. :o

...it's the end of the world as we know it. :'(

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I'm sorry, you seem to be under the impression that Microsoft is good at what they do. The only way that they've ever made money is with anti-trust business practices... Those have always kept all of the failing parts afloat... So far. :-/ Please go and Google Microsoft epic fails to educate yourself.

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

If Microsoft prevented the download of older versions, the modding community would fall apart, which would rapidly kill a huge chunk of the interest in Minecraft, making Microsoft's 2.5 Billion acquisition one of the biggest wastes of money ever in the gaming industry.

So what you're saying is... Microsoft will probably prevent the download of older versions.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Argghh! Ye know the scurvy swab's 'll be piratin' the booty whether or not the big lads wants it.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

bamccaig said:

I'm sorry, you seem to be under the impression that Microsoft is good at what they do.

Microsoft is an odd company when it comes right down to it. Between hints of brilliance are some of the most insipid and stupidest ideas ever conceived, but when it comes down to it, it's a large, publically owned corporation led by the whims of shareholders who only care about money and not the products and services offered by said company.

...same can be said about a TON of tech companies, actually. :P

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

Neil Roy
Member #2,229
April 2002
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I don't see a companies failures as a bad thing. A company that wants to succeed has to be willing to take chances, experiment and fail. There's just no way around it. I think the fact that Microsoft has failed and isn't afraid to fail is the very reason why it has been successful. I like their operating system, Windows 95, 98, XP and 7 have all been very nice operating systems and even old DOS.

Also, I don't buy into the whole greedy investor scenario. All they care about is money, well, that is the end result, but you can't make money if you're not selling the product, so I am fairly certain they care about the product and whether people are happy with it, because if they are not, than they don't make money.

---
“I love you too.” - last words of Wanda Roy

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

"What changes have we made to Encom OS 12?"

"..."

"...this year we put a 12 on the box."

:P

Funny thing is, this strategy would probably work better for Microsoft than constantly trying to reinvent the wheel as they did with Windows 8.

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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The problem with them not changing anything or not changing much is that people just say, "fuck it, I'll just stick with this version, it works just fine." For all intents and purposes, Windows 8 is still Windows 7. They just added a stupid layer to the GUI to make it appear "new". As usual, they took shortcuts doing it and the result is that it does more harm than good, but it's different so enough people still "upgrade". Hell, some of these dummies even convince themselves that 8 is better than 7... SMH.

Memos have leaked from developers inside Microsoft basically telling their managers that they want to fix annoyances within Windows (e.g., cmd.exe) and that it wouldn't take much, but their managers forbid it because they can't list it as a bullet point in a sale. If anything, acknowledging the weaknesses will look bad so instead they just pretend they don't exist and paint another stupid wasteful layer on top to make it seem newer...

The main reason that Microsoft is successful is because of anti-trust business arrangements, like having Windows bundled with computer hardware at computer stores. The average consumer cannot put a computer together, and does not shop for computers on NCIX or NewEgg. And even if they did, they'd just buy one by default with a Windows license anyway because they don't know any better. Microsoft still has a monopoly on PC systems. Apple has just barely broken into it, but they're no better so that's not solving anything. Microsoft still maintains a virtual monopoly. That combined with business' reliance on Microsoft Office (which again is basically a monopoly, and basically was installed through anti-trust business practices) ends up vendor-locking every dummy out there into Microsoft.

Despite there being adequate alternatives, and in many ways superior alternatives, you can't convince people to go through the pains of trying something actually new to them. Imagine how quickly desktop Linux and LibreOffice could surpass user-friendliness of Windows and MSO if the masses began to use it, and all of that capital currently being wasted on Microsoft was instead made available to the open source communities that bring us FLOSS. They already do a great job of being functional and reliable. They just need a little paint.

Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

...it still would be a better strategy for Microsoft in the long run not to screw too much with what works as it would create a stronger following and help eliminate competition. Sure, people would just stick with the same version of Windows for years, but guess what? If it worked perfectly fine, they wouldn't be switching to anyone else's OS which means Microsoft got their money and no other OS maker did, and eventually consumers would have to update anyways as older operating systems stopped being supported.

People ALREADY wait more than a version or two before updating Windows despite Microsoft's efforts. Microsoft really should just accept that and build upon their operating systems to make them stronger rather than reinvent things just to make them "fresh", since they're alienating consumers with that approach.

It remains to be seen though whether they'll apply their same sort of moon-logic to Minecraft. Time will tell.

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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bamccaig said:

For all intents and purposes, Windows 8 is still Windows 7. They just added a stupid layer to the GUI to make it appear "new". As usual, they took shortcuts doing it and the result is that it does more harm than good, but it's different so enough people still "upgrade". Hell, some of these dummies even convince themselves that 8 is better than 7... SMH

Actually, there are some nice speed improvements in Windows 8. Unfortunately, the new UI additions make it too unattractive to upgrade to (for me at least).

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Windows speed improvements:

win8.patch#SelectExpand
1diff win7/main.c win8/main.c 2--- win7/main.c 3+++ win8/main.c 4@@ -4012,9 +4012,9 @@ 5 } 6 7 // Speed loop... 8-for(i=0; i<1000000; i++); 9+for(i=0; i<100000; i++); 10 11 if(any_floss_detected()) 12 { 13 if(random_crash())

StevenVI
Member #562
July 2000
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People ALREADY wait more than a version or two before updating Windows despite Microsoft's efforts.

I don't think that's actually true. Weren't the majority of Windows users running Win7 before Win8 came out?

bamccaig said:

if(any_floss_detected()) { if(random_crash())

Blaming the shortcomings of your own code on the one in charge of the runtime is really lame. :P

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Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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StevenVI said:

Blaming the shortcomings of your own code on the one in charge of the runtime is really lame. :P

It isnt the runtime that is crashing, but the kernel ;)

--
Thomas Fjellstrom - [website] - [email] - [Allegro Wiki] - [Allegro TODO]
"If you can't think of a better solution, don't try to make a better solution." -- weapon_S
"The less evidence we have for what we believe is certain, the more violently we defend beliefs against those who don't agree" -- https://twitter.com/neiltyson/status/592870205409353730

Kitty Cat
Member #2,815
October 2002
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NiteHackr said:

All they care about is money, well, that is the end result, but you can't make money if you're not selling the product, so I am fairly certain they care about the product and whether people are happy with it, because if they are not, than they don't make money.

Unless they have no choice but to buy it even if they don't like it. Make deals so new premade PCs come with the new versions, slowly remove support for older versions (regardless of how popular they remain), get older versions off shelves, etc. Remove choice, and people will buy it whether they're happy with it or not.

--
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will pee on your computer." -- Bruce Graham

Kris Asick
Member #1,424
July 2001

bamccaig said:

Windows speed improvements:

I would like to remind people my Windows 8.1 Pro system boots from cold to able to run stuff in under 45 seconds without a SSD. My somewhat older Windows XP system takes over two minutes to reach that point and my father's Windows 7 system takes nearly FOUR FREAKING MINUTES. :o

I'm also one of the few people on the face of the planet who's run into more problems with 7 than Vista. Go figure. :P

Windows 8 is faster than XP, Vista, and 7. Doesn't make it better, but is a solid point in its favour all the same. Windows 98 however is still faster than all of them though, it's just too bad it can't really run much anymore without KernelEx or other third-party updates. ::)

--- Kris Asick (Gemini)
--- http://www.pixelships.com

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
avatar

...it still would be a better strategy for Microsoft in the long run not to screw too much with what works as it would create a stronger following and help eliminate competition. Sure, people would just stick with the same version of Windows for years, but guess what? If it worked perfectly fine, they wouldn't be switching to anyone else's OS which means Microsoft got their money and no other OS maker did, and eventually consumers would have to update anyways as older operating systems stopped being supported.

But then they'd only get $80 or so from each person on the planet for that one OS, and then where would they be?

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

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