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U.S. Govt
type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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So.. The topic just has to be raised, is it not?

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Is it not, what? Working to destroy itself? We'll have to wait and see. Because I may have huge qualms with Obama over the NSA scandals, the GOP acting like embittered, whining children currently infuriates me as our healthcare system is in serious need of change (I've spent the last two years on-and-off being bedridden with a spinal disease and bad doctors have almost killed me.)

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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I remember you were saying something about issues with your back. How is it now?

Back to O.P. So.. Some bill has passed somewhere, which IS saving the govt. Then Obama can veto it. What happens if he does?

There is another "house" to vote on this thing. How is it different from the previous house? How're they connected?

.. & jeez freaking Obamacare. Do they realize what happens if U.S. defaults on its debt? :-/

These few hundred motherfuckers got too much responsibilities on'em, and I highly doubt they care about anything but keepin' their salary and receiving donations from big banks. The latter is a good thing in this case though.

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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The Senate has two people per state, while the House has one person per local district. So the House is more of a circus because it represents the crazies on both ends of the spectrum. They both have to agree on a bill for it too get passed, and the President must then sign it. (A veto can still be overruled by a larger majority.)

I've survived several government shutdowns without noticing anything out of the ordinary. :P

William Labbett
Member #4,486
March 2004
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Barack Obama seems like a good man to me.

furinkan
Member #10,271
October 2008
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He also said that Republicans had no reason to be upset because the deficit was decreasing at the fastest rate in 60 (or so) years. I believe we had a discussion about this once. I like the guy, but he's just as guilty of political wordplay as anyone else.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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The general population has discovered they can is no longer ashamed to vote themselves bread and circuses on someone else's dime, so it's all downhill from here. Also, the nanny state saying "You can't do this", "You can't do that" and "You didn't build that" doesn't help.

[EDIT]

Changed to reflect reality better.

[EDIT 2]
And Popular Science magazine disabling comments from the unwashed masses.

Quote:

A politically motivated, decades-long war on expertise has eroded the popular consensus on a wide variety of scientifically validated topics. Everything, from evolution to the origins of climate change, is mistakenly up for grabs again. Scientific certainty is just another thing for two people to "debate" on television. And because comments sections tend to be a grotesque reflection of the media culture surrounding them, the cynical work of undermining bedrock scientific doctrine is now being done beneath our own stories, within a website devoted to championing science.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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lawl.

--
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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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type568 said:

I remember you were saying something about issues with your back. How is it now?

I had surgery coming up on one year ago. I'm still recovering but I'm worlds better than I used to be. I'm hoping to be able to start my career in a few months.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Good luck!

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Thank you!

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

The Master
Member #4,498
April 2004
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U.S. Government has shutdown.

While I don't live in America, I have American heritage, and it also matters for a lot of people around the world.

Thanks to the nonsensical stupidity that is American culture (this crappy notion that it's the greatest country in the world, and that they set the example for the world), voters elected an addlepated Congress of psychotic nutjobs. Also, the Koch Brothers funded the Tea Party, and basically helped a great deal to put them there. That Congress stonewalled on every single effort to provide transparency, universal healthcare, science funding, and a sane budget. As a result, the U.S. Government has shutdown.

Now, if you have a government job that doesn't involve killing people or protecting rich twats who have more than they need, you're basically unemployed. If you live on wellfare, you're not going to be able to pay your rent or buy food. Those effects will bleed through to every other demographic, not just in the U.S. but everywhere.

My advice, if you want to save your country, you need an Arab Spring event in America. If you don't get your nation back on track, we're all fucked.

We can only do what we feel is right each moment as we live it.

Aikei_c
Member #14,871
January 2013
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Arab Spring happened because there was no representative democracy in these countries, people could not influence the government, couldn't elect it, etc. Because political power in these states didn't change for decades, same people were running them for 20, 30 or sometimes even longer, becoming corrupt etc. There was no mechanism of periodical change of goverment.
Therefore, every opposition to the government lead to street protests and/or violence. I don't see how any of that can be applied to the US, where people elect their government periodically, where power is regularly passed to new people.
What are people gonna protest against? Against the goverment they elected themselves? Can't they just wait a couple years and elect a new government they will like?

The Master
Member #4,498
April 2004
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On October 17th, if I understand it properly, the senate has to agree on the budget, as well as vote to raise the U.S. debt ceiling. If you don't know what that means, nor understand the global ramifications of the U.S. defaulting on it's loans, look it up.

When I said Arab Spring, I meant a huge uprising, banging down the doors of Congress to make sure these idiots do their jobs. Because if this vote does not occur, and the U.S. government does not stop this nonsense, two months will be too late, let alone two years.

We can only do what we feel is right each moment as we live it.

Gideon Weems
Member #3,925
October 2003

My avatar, grafted onto a dedicated screen and looped endlessly, would do a better job leading the United States people than does the current administration.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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The Master:

Don't mistake our president/congress for our people. There is a huge political machine that has nothing to do with actually accomplishing anything.

I've consistently voted for the candidate who proposed to fix the deficit as my number 1 political priority.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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Don't mistake our president/congress for our people. There is a huge political machine that has nothing to do with actually accomplishing anything.

Hey, don't try to wiggle out of this. There is no evidence of widespread vote tampering, so most everybody responsible for this mess has big support from their constituency: a relevant gallup poll. Gerrymandering etc exists, sure... but everybody in Congress today is there because most people in their state/district (who voted) wanted them in. Ultimately this is the fault of the people. Speaking of which...

Quote:

I've consistently voted for the candidate who proposed to fix the deficit as my number 1 political priority.

I believe the current mess is exactly because a whole bunch of people voted the same way as you did... i.e. for people who are pathologically obsessed with lowering the deficit at the expense of everything else, who refuse to actually do their job (which is not lowering the deficit, but governing the country).

"For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increases knowledge increases sorrow."-Ecclesiastes 1:18
[SiegeLord's Abode][Codes]:[DAllegro5]:[RustAllegro]

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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Aikei_c said:

Because political power in these states didn't change for decades, same people were running them for 20, 30 or sometimes even longer, becoming corrupt etc.

It sounds to me so silly to believe it is any different in America. If a congressman is not corrupt he isn't likely to get in to the congress. The bribes are legalized donations, and the rule is essentially dictatorship of money benefiting from Arab springs.

raynebc
Member #11,908
May 2010

I think the deficit is a big issue, especially when more and more countries are drowning in debt and more than one has resorted to confiscating money from peoples' bank accounts in order to bail themselves out.

type568
Member #8,381
March 2007
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It is a huge issue, no doubt. It's no reason to be unable to come to an agreement, as such a shutdown generally only widens deficit, as it has a price in tax collection, and barely saves anything if at all.

Aikei_c
Member #14,871
January 2013
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type568 said:

It sounds to me so silly to believe it is any different in America

Yep, power is passed to different people usually every 8 years. Unless it is a great lie of our time which is intended to mask the one and only czar who's secretly ruling everyone, which I don't consider.
Really, you must've never experienced different government types, if you think electoral democracy is equal to dictatorship.
Dictatorship is when people in power run everything, there are no different branches of government in reality, no possible way to influence its policy by the majority (no elections at all, or they are all tampered), and these people only take new people from their own "clan". They never change, unless there is a military uprising, or something like it.

It is wrong to think that US is comparable in any way with, say, Libiya under Gaddafi. Unless you believe all this electoral democracy thing is a conspiracy.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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SiegeLord said:

Hey, don't try to wiggle out of this. There is no evidence of widespread vote tampering,

You misinterpret me. There has been a systematic vilification of real science, and civil liberties. The government controls news outlets in subtle ways, like redefining "enemy combatant" to "anyone killed by a missile strike" so that innocent men, women, and children are automatically "enemies" so the public doesn't see the tens of thousands of innocent people who die by our arms. Politicians regularly distract people with BS like "abortion" so they can polarize people, garner votes, and never actually change anything--because it's too good of a guaranteed vote (Democrats say we'll strengthen it, Republicans say they'll get rid of it, both get re-elected, and then they stop talking about it.)

As for me, I've written three letters to my state representative in the last two weeks.

Quote:

I believe the current mess is exactly because a whole bunch of people voted the same way as you did... i.e. for people who are pathologically obsessed with lowering the deficit at the expense of everything else, who refuse to actually do their job (which is not lowering the deficit, but governing the country).

The Tea Party and the GOP have nothing to do with rational thought. If they did, we'd all be running nuclear power, not suspending Due Process in Gauntanamo Bay, repealing the Patriot Act, repealing Homeland Security, the TSA, reducing the size of the NSA, staying out of wars, not paying to policing the world, paying off our national deficit, fixing our healthcare system and enforcing pollution controls. Add to the list: mistreatment of livestock, overuse of antibiotics in the livestock industry, subsidizing corn and ethanol.

The Tea Party, GOP, and Democrats are too busy loving the taste of their buttholes to be bothered with real problems. None of them except a few like Ron Paul care at all about reducing the deficit. I'm not saying he's perfect, but at least he votes exactly according to his public views. The rest only mention the deficit when it is politically beneficial to them--they don't actually care, and both sides have consistently increased the debt ceiling.

I'm honestly considering running for office later in life and putting these monsters to shame. And fighting dirty while I'm at it.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Well, I survived day 1 with no government. I'll try my best to last another. :'(

The Master
Member #4,498
April 2004
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None of them except a few like Ron Paul care at all about reducing the deficit.

He's no longer part of the Government.

Quote:

...both sides have consistently increased the debt ceiling.

Just so you know, raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean increasing debt or borrowing more money. It's a limit on the amount of money the treasury can give out so that the government can pay off its debts. In other words, it's only an indirect limit on borrowing.

The problem is, either the government or the people (more likely both) don't know what the debt ceiling does and can't be bothered to go and look it up. So you get a government borrowing more money, thinking erroneously that the debt ceiling will keep it in check, then exclaim "Why won't the treasury give us more money to pay off our debts!? Look at how in debt we are!? NO! We can't raise the debt ceiling! How can we borrow more money when we already have so much debt!?"

We can only do what we feel is right each moment as we live it.

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
avatar

Just so you know, raising the debt ceiling doesn't mean increasing debt or borrowing more money.

I'm well aware of what it means. It means they're not dealing with the problem, they're patching it for another few years so they can borrow more of their grandchildren's money.

Think about how insane that concept is: Spending money that your children will have to one day work hard to pay off. And not even during war time! For social spending so self-entitled baby boomers can continue their life of luxury that was given to them by the men and women who sacrificed everything to win World War 2.

-----sig:
“Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally for machines to execute.” - Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs
"Political Correctness is fascism disguised as manners" --George Carlin

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