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Legal issues: Releasing freeware game on another platform |
imaxcs
Member #4,036
November 2003
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Hi there! I am in a bit of a legal/moral dilemma: I recently released a beta version of my first android game and the responses are really positive (both comments and ratings, number of downloads: meh, but that's another story). While that makes me really happy, I "kinda" based my game a bit too much on an existing freeware game: the incredible Star Guard. I didn't intent to blatantly rip off Star Guard and profit from another indie developer's efforts but it seems like I am. How it happened: I was like "Cool, but what do I do with it?". In the course of the next weeks, I tried to contact the author of Star Guard. I wrote several E-mails and I asked if I was allowed to release it to the public. Unfortunately, he didn't respond at all. Still having fun working on my "port", I continued and the urge to release it on the android market rose. Finally, after googling things like "illegal freeware game clone", I decided what the hell and released it as a freeware game. In my mind, a couple of things can happen:
Maybe somebody with a little legal background can help me here: what's the worst I have to expect? Cease and desist? Or worse? I made no money releasing the game. I would like to if it's possible but before this issue isn't resolved, I can't. Anyway, if you like, here is the link to my game (or search for "star warrior" in the market). You will need an Android phone of course. Thanks for your input!
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StevenVI
Member #562
July 2000
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Looks like you stole his art. That's not very nice, and could put you in a bad position. Why not make your own? As far as I have heard (which doesn't mean its true), the rules to a game cannot be copyrighted, so in that regard you're fine. __________________________________________________ |
LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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imaxcs said: Anyway, if you like, here is the link to my game (or search for "star warrior" in the market). You will need an Android phone of course. I tried installing through your link, as searching for "Star warrior" on the Market returned no results, but I was told that the item was not compatible with my device.
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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The rule that I have heard is basically that he can't own the idea unless he patents it (which is highly unlikely as his game is probably not that original either). The copyright owner for the art, sound, and writing does own those works though and can control their use so if you're using any of that then you're definitely walking on thin ice (depending on the license that it was distributed with, of course). In short, if you're using his assets then you're already probably in some trouble for distributing them without his permission (unless the license for them permits you to do so). Especially if you distributed them through Android Marketplace or any other third party (without express permission to distribute your game in its entirety you probably breached their terms of service and such). Of course, if he doesn't actually care (or find out) then you aren't really in trouble, but there's always a chance that he could. If you can you should probably replace any such assets and send a critical update downstream (if possible). That probably won't relieve you of legal trouble, but it might reduce the odds of you getting caught. Of course, I'm no lawyer, so you should consult with an attorney before taking advice from us. It doesn't matter what we believe. What matters is what the copyright/trademark/patent owner and his legal council believes, and what the judge decides upon. You might make an even stronger effort now to contact the original author to get clearance from him so it's in the clear. I wouldn't expect to make money off of it. I highly doubt that a freeware publisher will be willing to let you make a profit on his work. He might agree to license it to you for a fee though. If you swap out any actually copied contents then you should no longer be exploiting his work and should be free to sell it. Though you have to ask yourself if it's really moral, even if it is legal. -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
Peter Wang
Member #23
April 2000
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Agreed about the legal issues mentioned so far. As far as the game goes, I had a lot of trouble shooting while in mid air; the presses just would not register. Also my device uses soft buttons so the right 20 pixels or so (approx.) are unusable. The 'J' label is slightly cut off, though both S/J actions still work, seemingly offset to the left a bit. I don't know how you're supposed to detect the usable screen space; apparently many games have a problem with this.
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Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003
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Why not redo any content you copied, and release an update to the game? Problem solved. And just in case it wasn't made clear, freeware doesn't mean you have any right to copy the content. It means you can play it for free. That's it. Freeware is very different from a license like GPL or something.
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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Billybob said: Why not redo any content you copied, and release an update to the game? Problem solved. That's not technically true. If the copyrighted material was wrongly distributed then redistributing replacement material doesn't necessarily undo the distribution of the copyrighted material. I'm sure it's still possible for the original copyright owner to make a case against you. Besides, you can't actually force data onto somebody's device (nor off of it). The carrier/distributor might try to force it, but that can always be hacked, if not just denied service. Especially if the updated content isn't as high quality as the originally distributed content (if the OP was capable of that then he probably would have had it done in the first place). Users are going to complain and warn others not to update. If the carrier/platform/device/OS insists upon updates then it will encourage hackers to hack the system. For all intents and purposes once the damage is done it's done. You just have to hope that those with rights in the matter don't mind. -- acc.js | al4anim - Allegro 4 Animation library | Allegro 5 VS/NuGet Guide | Allegro.cc Mockup | Allegro.cc <code> Tag | Allegro 4 Timer Example (w/ Semaphores) | Allegro 5 "Winpkg" (MSVC readme) | Bambot | Blog | C++ STL Container Flowchart | Castopulence Software | Check Return Values | Derail? | Is This A Discussion? Flow Chart | Filesystem Hierarchy Standard | Clean Code Talks - Global State and Singletons | How To Use Header Files | GNU/Linux (Debian, Fedora, Gentoo) | rot (rot13, rot47, rotN) | Streaming |
Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003
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bamccaig said: That's not technically true.
Sorry, what I meant by "problem solved" is that the OP's guilt will be solved. Yeah it doesn't solve past legal issues, but I don't think anyone here thinks there's a real problem there. Realistically nothing is going to happen. Worse case, C&D. That's about it (totally pulling this out of my arse
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X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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bamccaig said: The rule that I have heard is basically that he can't own the idea unless he patents it Game designs cannot be patented either. (Note that while there are a few game design related patents out there, I don't think they're all valid and they're more specific than this. You certainly can't patent an entire game.) Now, looking at assets... those are very simple assets. It's literally tiny 1-bit dudes in various colors. Which is why I think it's a bloody shame, and definitely illegal and even assholish, that you had to rip specific sprites like that. Just make your own. It's not hard to be consistent with that style if you really want it, but what you're doing right now is not kosher. -- |
Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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Billybob said: And just in case it wasn't made clear, freeware doesn't mean you have any right to copy the content. It means you can play it for free. That's it. Freeware is very different from a license like GPL or something. Freeware can mean anything between "I'm releasing this into the public domain" and a rather restrictive licence such as the stricter Creative Commons licences. --- |
imaxcs
Member #4,036
November 2003
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Thanks for your input! Looks like my concerns have come true. So I will have to roll an update with different graphics... Not easy for me as a non-artist, but I'll try. As for having problems playing the game: LennyLen said: I tried installing through your link, as searching for "Star warrior" on the Market returned no results, but I was told that the item was not compatible with my device. Your device doesn't meet the necessary requirements. The market only shows items available to your phone, sorry. Peter Wang said: As far as the game goes, I had a lot of trouble shooting while in mid air; the presses just would not register. Also my device uses soft buttons so the right 20 pixels or so (approx.) are unusable. The 'J' label is slightly cut off, though both S/J actions still work, seemingly offset to the left a bit. I don't know how you're supposed to detect the usable screen space; apparently many games have a problem with this. That is odd! I've never experienced anything like this. Could you please tell me your phone model and your android version? Does your phone support multi-touch? As for shooting while jumping, that a limitation of the touchscreen. If you try to press both 'J' and 'S' at the same time with the thumb, it will recognize it as only one press. I can't change that. edit:
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Tobias Dammers
Member #2,604
August 2002
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imaxcs said: If I stick to this style, I might end up with something very similar as the possibilities are not vast. I did draw the current graphics, I just took the original ones as a reference (I know that doesn't make it more legal). Do I have to go a different style as well?
As long as it's not a 'derivative work', you are good. So if you draw sprites from scratch and don't use the original ones for reference, you aren't technically violating copyright. However, you have seen the original ones, and recreating them from memory would probably qualify as 'derivative', and if your sprites resemble the original ones, it's going to be hard for you to argue that you did not use your knowledge of the original game to make these sprites. Quote: Shouldn't the authors of those game be in even more trouble than I am? With copyright, it always depends on the owner of the rights. If they don't act, nobody else will. --- |
LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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I think it goes a bit beyond "reference" here: imaxcs said: I am talking about games like this [market.android.com]. Shouldn't the authors of those game be in even more trouble than I am? They most certainly should. What they're doing is clearly and certainly within the realm of the illegal. -- |
MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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Even my phone is not compatible. --- |
imaxcs
Member #4,036
November 2003
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I just rolled out an update with changed graphics. I did them from scratch and tried to be different but still keep the minimalist style. They are not as expressive as the original, but at least I avoid legal issues. Quote: Even my phone [www.motorola.com] is not compatible. Hmm, it seems your phone doesn't have multitouch. And by multitouch I mean real multitouch, not just pinch-zoom only. Android 1.5 is only capable of a crippled version of multitouch that only works for special "gestures" like zooming. With Android 2.x, real multitouch became available... do you have Android 2.x?
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MiquelFire
Member #3,110
January 2003
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Quote: multitouch I don't even have pinch zoom (and I do have 2.1) --- |
LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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imaxcs said: With Android 2.x, real multitouch became available... do you have Android 2.x? My phone is Android 2.1 but has no multi-touch. My girlfriend's Sony Xperia is an Android 2.2 phone and it used to be multi-touch, but Sony removed it in an update for legal reasons.
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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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X-G said: Game designs cannot be patented either. (Note that while there are a few game design related patents out there, I don't think they're all valid and they're more specific than this. You certainly can't patent an entire game.)
I don't know about video games, but I do know that there are chess-variant games that are or were under a (US) patent, for instance Falcon Chess and formerly Gothic Chess. Quite how you can patent something as trivial as the rules of a chess-like game with a couple of (in the case of Gothic, well known) fairy pieces is beyond me, but apparently you can. |
Steve Terry
Member #1,989
March 2002
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Ran just fine on my HTC hero, I can see the graphics were updated, gameplay is the same. I would try to expand it a little more, sound effects would be great too. It is on the android platform and the character is green, you should make him an android ___________________________________ |
X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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Evert said: Quite how you can patent something as trivial as the rules of a chess-like game with a couple of (in the case of Gothic, well known) fairy pieces is beyond me, but apparently you can. There are a lot of patents that have snuck through the USPTO, but that doesn't mean those things are actually patentable. In short, those are errors and should never have been allowed to be patented. In Europe, the EPC specifically outlaws it, in fact: Quote: The following in particular shall not be regarded as inventions within the meaning of paragraph 1: (a) discoveries, scientific theories and mathematical methods; Emphasis mine. In the United States, it's less clearcut, but the same sentiment is expressed: Quote: Whoever invents or discovers any new and useful process, machine, manufacture, or composition of matter, or any new and useful improvement thereof, may obtain a patent therefor, subject to the conditions and requirements of this title.
Generally, rules for games have never been considered to have "useful" application. In short, the patents you referred to are most certainly invalid patents and would crumble if you poke them. -- |
imaxcs
Member #4,036
November 2003
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LennyLen said: My phone is Android 2.1 but has no multi-touch. My girlfriend's Sony Xperia is an Android 2.2 phone and it used to be multi-touch, but Sony removed it in an update for legal reasons.
MiquelFire said: I don't even have pinch zoom (and I do have 2.1) AFAIK, Android >= 2.x is just the software requirement for multitouch, the phone also needs to be capable hardware-wise.
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X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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Can we see screenshots of the new graphics? -- |
imaxcs
Member #4,036
November 2003
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Sure! These are two new enemy designs and the player. They look much better animated. I'll see if I can create an animated gif... {"name":"603433","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/7\/f7a373301a5455239ffd0d5e7d4cd4aa.png","w":273,"h":132,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/f\/7\/f7a373301a5455239ffd0d5e7d4cd4aa"} I created them in quite a rush but I am pretty pleased with how they turned out.
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AMCerasoli
Member #11,955
May 2010
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Well I was reading this: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=17029.0 and remembered your post... tan tan tan...
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