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Unlimited Detail Technology
bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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video

I don't know if this is true or not, but it sounds good and is very exciting. :D

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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It's the graphics equivalent of perpetual motion.

#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

StevenVI
Member #562
July 2000
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I stopped watching because it was annoying, I'd rather have text that I can skim.

The concept of making a 3D model out of points doesn't sound particularly intuitive. That wouldn't give you unlimited detail, because the points are still discrete. (If there was an actual explanation past the 3 minute mark, I missed it, so please enlighten me.)

Do people really no longer use NURBS anymore? Those aren't polygons, they're continuous surfaces.

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Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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The screencaps certainly don't look impressive. A weird animal drawn in a bunch of pyramids? The textured polygon data looked far better.

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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The concept of point clouds comes from quantum statistics representing the orbitals of atoms. I guess monte carlo integration will merge with this technology later on, theres a field called quantum fluid dynamics which uses monte carlo methods to describe combustion on the real world scale but it takes days to render a complete video on a cluster.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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The weird animals in pyramids thing said there were 8 billion points. Now assuming each point is a 3d vector of floats, that's 48 gigabytes of memory.

#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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that's 48 gigabytes of memory.

Remember, what you don't have in memory you can make up in processing speed.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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To summarize (based only on watching that video):

Rather than using a limited number of flat polygons, you use point cloud data to achieve greater detail. Since the geometric building blocks are "round" it makes it easy to have truly round geometry as well.

The actual drawing is done in software. They claim to have a search algorithm that searches through all of the point cloud data to find only the pixels that will actually be drawn. So rather than having to load tons of polygons into the GPU, it just gets an image the size of the screen. They claim to be able to do this in real-time and allegedly demonstrated with scenes containing billions of points (IIRC, don't ask me about the actual scale).

Essentially, they claim to be able to have much more detail (they keep saying unlimited, but I'm sure there is still a real-time processing limit, let alone the obvious storage limits) than a polygon-based GPU can handle. They also don't need to have multiple versions of the same models because the point cloud data can just be scaled in real time, keeping it's shape and detail they are only limited by system memory and the algorithm is supposed to be able to go through tons of data efficiently at run-time.

The algorithm is way over my head, but it sounds good in theory. And they seem pretty confident about it so I can't imagine it's a gimmick. If what they're saying is true, in a few years games could have much more detail and perform much better. No more swapping of models at run-time and actually round surfaces in game instead of painted flat ones.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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bamccaig said:

actually round surfaces in game instead of painted flat ones.

And if the polygons are smaller than a pixel?

#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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This technology will also probably dramatically change the way graphics cards are made. It's claimed that the processing is done in software, so the graphics cards of today could be obsoleted and optionally replaced by an extra CPU or something.

And if the polygons are smaller than a pixel?

Then you're going to have too many of them for the hardware to handle. :P

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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bamccaig said:

If what they're saying is true, in a few years games could have much more detail and perform much better. No more swapping of models at run-time and actually round surfaces in game instead of painted flat ones.

No need for that if they keep story, plot and gameplay dumbed down.

As far as that showcase goes. You only need one of those weird animals and then just displace it all over the scene to form a Siepersky fractal pyramid. As far as their city goes I wasn't that impressed. It was a bit bloated for my taste.

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Jesse Lenney
Member #8,356
February 2007
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Looks cool. Hopefully it's not some big hoax >:(

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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bamccaig said:

you're going to have too many of them for the hardware to handle.

Stuck with Intel graphics, huh?

#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

imaxcs
Member #4,036
November 2003
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Sooo, they basically invented an algorithm which kind of works like raytracing, but way faster? With only seeing this video, I am more than sceptical.

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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Actually they said it kinda works like Google, only with 3D points... ???

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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So they have the biggest collective computer in the world?

#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

Steve Terry
Member #1,989
March 2002
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:'( It's not April 1st yet :'(

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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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I don't believe it. It looks like they are trying to just steal a bunch of investor's money. I never trust anybody who invokes a conspiracy theory.

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

It doesn't look so much better than the DirectX 11 tesselation demos.

The weird animals in pyramids thing said there were 8 billion points. Now assuming each point is a 3d vector of floats, that's 48 gigabytes of memory.

But you could use instancing there since they're simply duplicating the same object a lot of times.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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An "instance" of a point (or sphere) at 8 billion unique locations. Or you mean the "animal" as a whole? Then the pyramid as a whole? Lemme watch it again.

[EDIT]

Reading the comments for the video seems to imply ray-casting. But this "MASS CONNECTED PROCESSING" sounds dodgy, as well as "compressing the data to be very small". Maybe it's lossy or something, but I'm not holding my breath.

#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

kenmasters1976
Member #8,794
July 2007

Or you mean the "animal" as a whole? Then the pyramid as a whole?

Yes, this. That'd be my guess, that is.

Anyway, I agree with Matthew Leverton on this.

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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Basically what they are doing isn't new, its just they're sort of bullshitting people making them think it is. Here some software that uses that technology for orbitals. They say they use a search engine to generate the points or something and that might be the latest thing to it, besides that theres nothing new to that idea, which is why Im not surpised that most of you think its bullshit.

Orbital viewer does this

"Three Types of Rendering Point probability plots, polygon surface plots, and raytracing (both probability and surface plots)."

The technology google uses to index billions of page requires understanding matrices that have billions of independent bases. The search algorithm can extract a certain base because theres a quicker way to do it somehow, I forgot the actual name of it but I learned about it in linear algebra.

Vanneto
Member #8,643
May 2007
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Just go look at their website. If this isn't a scam I don't know what is.

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Bruce Perry
Member #270
April 2000

It's all right, I'm sure piccolo is already making a rival engine based on the holographic principle :)

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verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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It's all right, I'm sure piccolo is already making a rival engine based on the holographic principle [en.wikipedia.org] :)

I'll just save him some time. Metropolis Algorithm. ;D

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