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So whats the difference between eating a dog or a cow...
GameCreator
Member #2,541
July 2002
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Because then you get food from both food groups.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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Erikster said:

It seems that Americans prefer to eat animals that are vegetarians.

As mentioned above, meat eaters have to be fed other animals. To greatly oversimplify you can count on 10 units of stuff eaten = 1 unit of growth of the animal, so a cow that grows to 800 pounds had to have eaten 8000 pounds of grass & grains. If you then fed these cows to wolves, you'd get 80 pounds of wolf for that 8000 pounds of grass. If you're then feeding cow to humans you'd get an 80 pound kid, or a freshly born 8 pound kid by eating wolf.
That's one of the reason the vegans push their agenda, it works for humans too.

I really admire the U.S. Constitution. It's so much better than what we have now.

Bob
Free Market Evangelist
September 2000
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Cows contain more beef.

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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Dogs don't have any beef, so it's a wash.

I really admire the U.S. Constitution. It's so much better than what we have now.

Ben Delacob
Member #6,141
August 2005
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Well, there's also intelligence. The smarter something seems to us, the more we empathize with it. I don't know if this isn't as true in some Asian cultures with dog/ cat/ dolphin or if there's something else going on.
I'm not sure of cow intelligence though I imagine it's more than might first meet the eye. They're not very active though. How about horses? I guess culture still remains the main element.

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jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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Vegans are jackasses.

Cows and other ruminants are the only animals that can extract energy from cellulose fiber, i.e. eat grass for food. Humans can't. Most of agrable land does not lend itself for growing food straight for human consumption, but it can be used to grow cattle feed. That is why we eat meat. Because the world would starve otherwise.

As for pigs, chickens, there are no excuses for eating them other than taste, however.

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Ben Delacob
Member #6,141
August 2005
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The image of cows out grazing on the farm is not reflective of most modern meat production. Modern cow factories (farm isn't quite right anymore) feed tons of soy to cows - this also produces more methane than the beasts usually produce and it's a significant amount compared to cars. Even if that happens only 10% of the time, it's wasteful (and I'm pretty sure the percentage is much greater).

Ugh I'm not liking this. I might go look for some actual numbers.

It's late and it's a hard thing to search for due to too much related information.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_feeding Wikipedia clearly states US cows are corn fed. It' makes sense with the great subsidies we have for corn. A lot would be solved if we quit subsidizing corn so much.

"Livestock consumes 47% of the soy and 60% of the corn produced in the US"
http://www.agobservatory.org/library.cfm?refid=88122#search=%22major%20costs%20livestock%20farmers%22

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jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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Yeah, I'm not worried about that. Because eventually that soy will have to be reserved for human consumption.

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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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I'm not sure of cow intelligence though I imagine it's more than might first meet the eye. They're not very active though. How about horses?

I seem to remember that cows are fairly intelligent. Certainly more intelligent than sheep, but that's not very hard. Horses, apparently, are not that bright (which is why it's easier to train them).
What about horses anyway? Eating them, you mean? We had a lunchtime discussion the other day where some people were quite shocked to learn that people eat horse meat. Or venison for that matter.
Yes, it's a cultural thing.

The image of cows out grazing on the farm is not reflective of most modern meat production. Modern cow factories (farm isn't quite right anymore) feed tons of soy to cows - this also produces more methane than the beasts usually produce and it's a significant amount compared to cars.

You don't have to buy the intensively farmed and processed meat though.
That said, I've had discussions with people claiming that it's impossible to farm cattle efficiently without using antibiotics and hormones to stimulate meat production. That's simply not true.
Not sure what point I was trying to make there...

Sirocco
Member #88
April 2000
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Soylent green.

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Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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Sirocco said:

Soylent green.

is people

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Albin Engström
Member #8,110
December 2006
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I don't understand how stop eating meat will do any good for anyone, including the animals.

Even if a cow eats "more energy" than it becomes, it's not like all that energy goes to waste, some of it is used to grow the very food the vegetarians eat(at least very close to where I live :().

Besides, what is going to happen to the animals if we stop eating them? Who is going to take care of them? The vegetarians? I don't think so.

The problem with having rights is that you also have responsibilities, responsibilities animals can't possible fullfill, that's why we force them to serve us, beacuse otherwise it would have to be the other way around.

Anyway, the TED talk was good except the part about organic food.
The "earthlings" video was better than that usual crap but just as unrealistic.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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Besides, what is going to happen to the animals if we stop eating them? Who is going to take care of them? The vegetarians? I don't think so.

You could always let them take care of themselves (like they did for millions of years before we captured them). Albeit, like dogs, they've probably lost the instincts to take care of themselves by now.

The problem with having rights is that you also have responsibilities, responsibilities animals can't possible fullfill, that's why we force them to serve us, beacuse otherwise it would have to be the other way around.

What responsibilities are you referring to? ::)

Anomie
Member #9,403
January 2008
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jhuuskon said:

That is why we eat meat. Because the world would starve otherwise.

I'm faaairly sure that any sensible person (vegans included) would give a big a-okay to meat-eating in the case that one would starve otherwise.

I'm not sure about farm-able land being unsuited to growing human foods, but a quick Google suggests that only the more affluent citizens of the few most affluent nations eat any appreciable amount of meat. Our uneaten veggies can go to the starving people, I guess. Is that what you were meaning? ???

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jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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Livestock can graze in places where a combine harvester can't go. That's all there is to it.

You don't deserve my sig.

anonymous
Member #8025
November 2006

Well, there's also intelligence. The smarter something seems to us, the more we empathize with it. I don't know if this isn't as true in some Asian cultures with dog/ cat/ dolphin or if there's something else going on.
I'm not sure of cow intelligence though I imagine it's more than might first meet the eye. They're not very active though. How about horses? I guess culture still remains the main element.

I suppose there is no objective measure of animal "intelligence", so it depends on the culture how smart one or another animal is perceived to be. (E.g cat-lovers would probably find that dogs are dumber than dog-owners generally think.)

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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Evert said:

That said, I've had discussions with people claiming that it's impossible to farm cattle efficiently without using antibiotics and hormones to stimulate meat production. That's simply not true.

Feeding cattle antibiotics certainly helps when they crowd the cattle densely into feedlots to avoid the cost of ranches that spread horizon to horizon.

{"name":"feedlot.jpg","src":"http:\/\/static.allegro.cc\/image\/cache\/8\/8\/88ec831ad461d7cf46671350ad4f6b1f.jpg","w":500,"h":333,"tn":"http:\/\/static.allegro.cc\/image\/cache\/8\/8\/88ec831ad461d7cf46671350ad4f6b1f"}feedlot.jpg

I really admire the U.S. Constitution. It's so much better than what we have now.

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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What amazes me are the comments in this one

Dude, the people are that site are nuts.

My roommate says that if he ever went to China he'd try dog meat, because it's part of the culture. I always ask him why he can't just try it here and he says, "It's not our culture to eat dog meat."

And? Is he somehow a different person when he travels to another country?

I wouldn't eat a dog unless I was starving, but at least I'm aware of the fact that that's just a cultural thing, and I don't try to cast judgment on people who live in a different culture.

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I barely witnessed it. I was half asleep at the time. At first I thought he had fallen out of bed, but then I slowly realized that he had, in fact, just jump-kicked his way into consciousness.

Arvidsson
Member #4,603
May 2004

Yes, you become a different human being when you travel, you become a tourist.

Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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Tourists... the bane of civilization.

I am Mildly Annoying Man!
I barely witnessed it. I was half asleep at the time. At first I thought he had fallen out of bed, but then I slowly realized that he had, in fact, just jump-kicked his way into consciousness.

anonymous
Member #8025
November 2006

And? Is he somehow a different person when he travels to another country?

Ideally, yes.

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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you become a tourist.

Tourists are uncultured swine and they need to be eaten. I prefer baby fingers.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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verthex said:

Tourists are uncultured swine

Why? Because of their provincial attitudes?

I really admire the U.S. Constitution. It's so much better than what we have now.

Trezker
Member #1,739
December 2001
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Besides, what is going to happen to the animals if we stop eating them? Who is going to take care of them? The vegetarians? I don't think so.

That's the silliest of all arguments against vegetarians.
Not everyone is gonna go veg at once. So when people gradually convert the market for meat shrinks and farmers will gradually have to scale down production. In the end, some people will still eat meat so there's still gonna be farms, just not as many as we have now.

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