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Why not just turn off the ignition first...
Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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Back in the old days before LoJack they had a kill switch between the battery and the starter. Why not make a panic button for the Prius on the dashboard for something that kills the connection to the Electric motor dead cold. Maybe have a separate key sorta like the ones you use to activate nukes.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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verthex said:

Back in the old days before LoJack they had a kill switch between the battery and the starter.

Back in the day, I busted many a tennis shoe trying to press the rod between the floorboard and the starter before starter solenoids were invented, but the pedal pad was gone. (1940's models in the 1970's when I couldn't afford anything beyond "free") Then they had dash mounted push-buttons to activate a solenoid (late 40's early '50's). Then they had multiple position ignition switches on the dash with a "start position" (late '50's to early '70's) until they mounted them on the steering column to integrate with the locking steering wheels. When did the LoJack come in?

#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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The Prius already has emergency kill... Apparently hitting the brake pedal will kill the engine as well.

Also, the deal with the ignition switch is that you can't turn it far enough back to lock the steering wheel while the vehicle is in gear. You should be able to turn it back far enough to kill the engine though. You will lose power steering and brakes, but you really should be able to make due without them.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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BAF said:

The gas pedal getting physically stuck is not an electrical problem...

Apparently several people have had their cars accelerate out of control and the pedal itself wasn't stuck, at least not by the mat or anything. And at least one of the data recorders have been verified to show that the actual gas pedal wasn't down at the time of the accident.

Makes me think theres several problems going on at once.

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BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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That still doesn't stop them from killing the vehicle, either by hitting both the gas and the brake, putting the car in 'Park' (which puts it in neutral), hitting the kill switch, etc.

There may be problems going on, but that doesn't make it totally Toyota's fault that their customers aren't smart enough to know basic safety procedures like this before driving. Then again, maybe if some more Prius owners crashed and burned, we'd have less holier-than-thou people walking around, thinking they're so awesome because they're "saving" the environment by driving their hunks of junk.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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One dude was on with 911 while his car was going wild and they suggested several things that didn't work. I'd be surprised if all of your suggestions weren't already tried.

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BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Except it was probably a media stunt. Kind of funny how once the cops got to him, he was able to shut the car off. A car that wasn't affected by any of the recalls.

superstar4410
Member #926
January 2001
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The reason you should not turn off the ignition is because you loose
the ability to steer. Which can likely make things worst

Don't take yourself too seriously, but do take your responsibilities very seriously.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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You don't lose the ability to steer. You cannot turn the key far enough back to lock the wheel if the car is in gear. You lose power steering, but that won't stop you from steering.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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The reason you should not turn off the ignition is because you loose
the ability to steer. Which can likely make things worst

You'll still have steering (unless the car is fly-by-wire, but I doubt it), but it won't be engine assisted. You can still steer, but the car will feel very heavy (you won't be able to turn the wheel as quickly, etc.). Similarly, you'll still have brakes, but they won't be engine assisted, so you'll be physically pushing fluid against the caliper pistons. The brakes too will feel very heavy, but if you put your legs into it you should still be able to stop. I would recommend initiating such a technique on a long stretch of straight road. :P

Truth is, if the engine dies on you then you'll have to be able to steer and brake without the engine so it is possible (and very necessary; there are all sorts of things that can cause the engine to die). Additionally, the handbrake (or parking brake, depending on make and model) are essentially linked to a cable that, according to things I learned back in high school, directly applies a small drum brake somewhere along the rear axle (or similar, depending on make and model). Similar, at least in principle, to a bicycle braking system.

BAF said:

You don't lose the ability to steer. You cannot turn the key far enough back to lock the wheel if the car is in gear. You lose power steering, but that won't stop you from steering.

I don't know formally, but I always assumed it was to prevent you from walking away with your keys while the vehicle is still in gear. The steering lock sounds good too though. :)

Neil Walker
Member #210
April 2000
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If your ignition is off and you turn the steering wheel the steering lock engages so you can't turn. Turning off the engine also reduces the braking ability hugely having no servo assist. Unless American cars are different to others and don't have steering locks?

Though I guess having almost no brakes or ability to turn is better than smacking into something at 90mph :)

Neil.
AXL LIBRARY (a games framework) / AXL Documentation and Tutorial

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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The ignition on American cars generally goes like:

Turn key back toward you from "remove key" position to accessory to play radio etc. without running engine.

Turn key forward one click to disengage wheel and shift lever locks.

Turn key two clicks forward for "ignition on"

Three clicks forward to engage starter, will automatically rotate back to position two when released.

The power steering is most useful for parallel parking, you have to rotate the tires with little or no rotation so you're scrubbing the tires on the contact point of tire to road patch. At speeds of 5 mph or greater, it's much easier to turn the wheel. At highway speeds, the scrub effect is practically non-existent, so steering effort with disabled power steering is almost entirely caused by forcing the power steering fluid through the cylinder.

#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
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Also, if your power assist brakes are in working order, you should have enough reserve vacuum in the system after the engine is killed to get a couple full applications of the brakes before the assist goes away. With my car, I can pump the brake pedal 2 full times with no noticeable increase in resistance, and 1-2 more times after that before the pedal is rock hard.

Also, as Arthur said, there's a difference between ignition off and steering lock on. Even if the accessory position isn't between lock and on, there's still an in between area where the ignition (should) be off, and the wheel still unlocked.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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BAF said:

Also, if your power assist brakes are in working order, you should have enough reserve vacuum in the system after the engine is killed to get a couple full applications of the brakes before the assist goes away. With my car, I can pump the brake pedal 2 full times with no noticeable increase in resistance, and 1-2 more times after that before the pedal is rock hard.

Why would you pump them at all? ???

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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You wouldn't, if you were in the "stuck pedal" scenario, but he's just explaining that you have plenty of brakes even with the engine off.

#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Check your ignition lock again, fellows! All cars I've had lock the steering wheel only when I'm removing the key. I unlock the steering wheel by turning from position 1 to position 2. Position 2 turns power on for radio etc. But turning back from 2 to 1 never locks the steering wheel, no matter how much I turn the wheel. Not until I remove the key, I hear a click from the lock, which will eventually lock the wheel if the wheel is turned.

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This thread is obviously about nothing so heres a bunny with a pancake on its head. -kazzmir

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I'm not sure. I know the wheels of cars I've driven lock if the ignition is <= 'off' position (if turned). In most cars, the key can't be removed unless in the 'off' position. The few cars that have allowed it in > 'off' position (I think they've all been Ford's thus far) have felt like junk to me.

Disclaimer: I am a little drunk, but maybe I can confirm that tomorrow, at least with my '95 Grand Prix.

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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The japanese cars I've had have locked the steering wheel in the all off position even with the key insterted, however they have needed some extra safety measure to turn there, the Mitsubishi needed a button prssed before it turned and on the Toyota I needed to push the key inwards. Both Peugeots and the Fiat locked the wheel when removing the key.

You don't deserve my sig.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

I remember what my big brother told in late 70's. He drew a VW beetle and he heard some strange noise from front wheels. He suspected the bearings and to hear better he turned off the engine while the car was rolling. But since that's not what one does on regular basis, as a reflex he pulled off the key from the lock. And that way locked the steering. He panicked but managed to put it back and unlock the steering before anything happened. So even the good old Beetle had what I would consider normal behaviour of the ignition/wheel lock. The steering remains unlocked until you remove the key. Unless you got those extra knobs you have to push. Or push the key itself down.

BTW, did Saab 99 have a steering wheel lock? I remember the ignition lock was strangely placed near the gear stick and hand brake. And you couldn't remove the key before putting gear on reverse. So a thief couldn't drive away the car without breaking the lock, but the car could have been towed away if someone just kept the clutch pedal down.

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This thread is obviously about nothing so heres a bunny with a pancake on its head. -kazzmir

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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No. It locked the gears in reverse. The 90, 99, 900, 9000, 900NG, 9-3 and 9-5 all had that, i.e. Pretty much every model after the 96.

You don't deserve my sig.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Speaking of Saab, I think it's admirable when they reuse the model names.
{"name":"RightFront.jpg","src":"http:\/\/static.allegro.cc\/image\/cache\/1\/e\/1e443ed361aa15691dd9f16a6b0653af.jpg","w":600,"h":429,"tn":"http:\/\/static.allegro.cc\/image\/cache\/1\/e\/1e443ed361aa15691dd9f16a6b0653af"}RightFront.jpg
Saab 95, 1963.
3 cyl. 2-stroke!

{"name":"saab%2095%20nya.jpg","src":"http:\/\/static.allegro.cc\/image\/cache\/3\/a\/3a99a99aa393d3a548f0336ede0a5a31.jpg","w":480,"h":178,"tn":"http:\/\/static.allegro.cc\/image\/cache\/3\/a\/3a99a99aa393d3a548f0336ede0a5a31"}saab%2095%20nya.jpg
Saab 95, 2009.

Ok, I think they try to use 9-5 instead of 95, but it's very commonly called Saab 95. When I hear Saab 95, I think of the funny uneven sound of a 3 cyl. 2-stroke engine. And lots of blue smoke. Is this the reason Saab went down? They should have reused number 96 instead, which was a bit improved model with a 4-stroke V4.

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This thread is obviously about nothing so heres a bunny with a pancake on its head. -kazzmir

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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Two strokes from the 60's commonly needed 20:1 oil to gas ratio, which made them smoke so much. And the Ford Crown Victoria as well as the Chevy Impala retired the names for awhile before bringing them back.

#define GL_TIMEOUT_IGNORED 0xFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFull

jhuuskon
Member #302
April 2000
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"9-5" != "95". Around here even colloquially they're different. The 95 is "ysivitonen" ("nine-fiver") while the 9-5 is "ysiviis" ("nine-five").

You don't deserve my sig.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

20:1 oil to gas ratio, which made them smoke so much

I'd reckon. ;D

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This thread is obviously about nothing so heres a bunny with a pancake on its head. -kazzmir

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