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Well, today sucks...
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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After three years of work, and over $2,000 in parts, I finally finished putting together my Eagle Talon. In fact, this is the third day of my spring break I've put into it. The starter finally was on and connected. But I couldn't get the thing to fire. I checked and rechecked everything but it wouldn't even fire on starting fluid even though it had spark and the fuel pump was running. After my third full day of work I finally did a compression check.

60 psi, 60 psi, 60 psi, 120 psi.

Standard is 195 psi, service limit is 165 psi.

What does that mean?

That means after three years of work, and over $2,000 dollars in parts, I spent all of that putting together a broken engine. The machine shop I took the head to never completely fixed the head. Of which I paid over $600 to fix the head and assemble the crank and pistons.

There's just no way I can put the money and time into dissembling, rebuilding, and re-assembling the engine again.

So, my Talon is dead. :'(

I... just don't have any words to describe this feeling. All of that work for nothing...

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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If the cylinder walls are dry, they could lead to a low compression bad enough it won't start. Try taking the plugs out and siphoning (or similar) a couple teaspoonfulls of motor oil into each cylinder and crank it over a few times before reinstalling the spark plugs. It'll smoke pretty badly for a few minutes if it does start.

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Steve++
Member #1,816
January 2002

Wow, your life really sucks ::)

Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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If the cylinder walls are dry, they could lead to a low compression bad enough it won't start.

Already did. :'( That's how you find out whether it's the head or the cylinder. If it goes up with oil, it's rings. If it doesn't go up, it's valves. Either way, it's drastically low.

Steve++ said:

Wow, your life really sucks ::)

Try working on something for three years, in the sun, rain, and snow until your hands bled.

:-/

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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I hate to say it, but asking the machine shop to redo the engine and reimburse you for the time wasted reinstalling the engine, lest you (gasp) sue them? This isn't like some dumb broad spilled guaranteed HOT coffee on herself.

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piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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I... just don't have any words to describe this feeling. All of that work for nothing...

Spend a few more dollars

http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/603069/850173#target

for thier lack of honor, go back to the machine shop and exspress your self. Dont hold that stuff in or inacent people mite have to pay .

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Matthew Leverton
Supreme Loser
January 1999
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Even if it had worked, it still would have been a waste of time.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Oh man, that really sucks. I don't presume you could walk into that service and throw it on their head.

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Neil Black
Member #7,867
October 2006
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How long ago did they "repair" it?

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Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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That sucks man.

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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I hate to say it, but asking the machine shop to redo the engine and reimburse you for the time wasted reinstalling the engine, lest you (gasp) sue them? This isn't like some dumb broad spilled guaranteed HOT coffee on herself.

They would have had to guarantee that their "repair" would fix it for him to have any grounds to sue them (at least, legitimately, as you pointed out with the coffee). I'm not familiar with what job they did, but I'm guessing they had no means to test the head after it was fixed.

Isn't $600 a little much to pay to fix the head for a Talon anyway? Couldn't you find a replacement in a scrap yard for a lot less (or am I missing something)?

Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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bamccaig said:

they had no means to test the head after it was fixed.

You put the head upside down, fill the combustion chambers with kerosene or similar, and wait to see if the ports get wet. A good valve job shouldn't require "testing" though. As far as cracks into the coolant passages, they generally cover all the coolant openings with rubber blocks and apply vacuum to one opening and see if it drops due to a leak.

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bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Moral of the story: don't pay $600 to get some head. ;)

But yeah. That must suck. All that wasted time and ruined expectations. My condolences.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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So when he was jacking the car up to get at the exhaust manifold bolts, somebody asked him why, and he said "For $600 they ain't gettin' the easy one".

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verthex
Member #11,340
September 2009
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I... just don't have any words to describe this feeling. All of that work for nothing...

Which reminds me of this video.

8-)

Steve Terry
Member #1,989
March 2002
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Please don't tell me you are going to just park it in your front lawn to rust like most people in the USA seem to do. At least send it to the scrap yard or part it out, then send the body to a scrap yard.

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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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bamccaig said:

Isn't $600 a little much to pay to fix the head for a Talon anyway?

$300 to rebuild the head, from what I remember all the exhaust valves were changed but the intake ones were deemed fine and I don't believe they changed the valve stems. The cams were almost new already so I told them to keep them and just polish them to get rid of the rust.

The other $300 was to assemble the bottom end (bearings, pistons, piston rings, etc.) I did the balance shafts myself.

I waited over a month for each of the jobs to be done. I called every week and they kept telling me it wasn't done yet. I was so pissed.

I hate to say it, but asking the machine shop to redo the engine and reimburse you for the time wasted reinstalling the engine, lest you (gasp) sue them?

I'm going to make sure it's their fault and not something I did (improperly torqued head gasket, or a cracked block from having not evenly mixed water+coolant over a winter cycle) before I talk to them about it. But if it is due to poorly seating valves, than I'm going to ask for my money back for both jobs. I'm not going to ask for any more than that, however, the damage is already done.

Please don't tell me you are going to just park it in your front lawn to rust like most people in the USA seem to do. At least send it to the scrap yard or part it out, then send the body to a scrap yard.

As many good memories I had with this car, if it's over, it's over and I'll be ditching it. It's just really sad to toss or sell off a brand new set of pistons, oil pump, hydraulic tensioner and timing setup, water pump, ignition wires and plugs, and God only knows what else.

It's also really sad to loose all of the extra work I put into it. I replaced the engine mounts but the ones I couldn't get, I had to make my own out of polyurethane. I also made a spacer plate for my transmission out of ultra-high molecular weight polyurethane. And tons of connectors, studs, and bolts I had to custom cut, thread, and make. It's a 20 year-old car after all.

Gosh, and all the time fixing the suspension and dropping in a new power steering rack and clutch.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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I don't believe they changed the valve stems

The valve stem is the long cylindrical part of the valve itself. Perhaps you meant valve guides? The image there is confusing, the valve guide is the long tubular hole the valve stem passes through.

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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Yeah, typo on my part.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Member #5,540
February 2005
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Sometimes there is no "valve guide" that can be pressed out and replaced.(the material of the head itself is the "guide" material) In that case, they can use a special gadget to knurl the inside of the guide to make the effective diameter smaller, but the tips of the knurls have less surface than the original so will wear much faster. The alternative is to bore them out larger and use oversized stem valves. You could be talking a few hundred more dollars here.

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Kibiz0r
Member #6,203
September 2005
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bamccaig said:

They would have had to guarantee that their "repair" would fix it for him to have any grounds to sue them

False. Implied warranty of workmanlike quality.

This isn't like some dumb broad spilled guaranteed HOT coffee on herself.

I hate it when people throw around a headline and pretend they know a damn thing about the actual story.

http://lawandhelp.com/q298-2.htm
Specifically, note that McDonald's brewed their coffee much hotter than industry standards -- and although that site doesn't mention it, hotter than the maximum suggested by coffee trade associations. And in cases concerning negligence, trade is taken into account and McDonald's has a legal duty to act as "a reasonable coffee vendor ought to act", which they clearly failed to do.

See also the legal duties owed to invitees under tort law:

Quote:

The property owner has a duty to make the property safe for the invitee, which includes conducting a reasonable inspection of the premises to uncover hidden dangers. The property owner also has a duty to warn the invitee of hazardous conditions that cannot be fixed. Furthermore, property owners assume a duty to rescue an invitee who falls into peril while visiting the property. If an independent contractor hired by the landowner injures an invitee (intentionally or through negligence), the owner can be held vicariously liable. This represents the broadest duty of care owed to any class of visitors to the property.

Yeah, I took a business law class at community college. What's up.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Kibiz0r said:

Yeah, I took a business law class at community college. What's up.

Do you also put hot coffee between your lap while driving in the city? I don't care if it was brewed too hot, normal "hot" coffee would burn. Its a stupid thing to do regardless.

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Billybob
Member #3,136
January 2003
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Consider it an Odyssey; a journey taken not for the pleasure of the destination, but the thrills and experience of the adventure itself.

Just trying to cheer ya up. 8-)

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Trent Gamblin
Member #261
April 2000
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You could always go street fighter II on it.

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