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[Chemistry] Can water vapor (or other gases) carry dirt?
Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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Water is very polar, so it's rarely seen in it's pure homeogenious state (not combined with other minerals it picks up when it touches them). When it boils, it leaves behind those minerals, and this is the idea behind distilling water.

So my question is: Does water vapor have any strong enough bonds to pull other atoms with it? (even if in small amounts.)

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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It "condenses" on anything it can continuously, but if the temperature is above the dew point, it's evaporating faster than it condenses, so whatever gets "wet" stays dry. I'd suppose the same goes for individual molecules too.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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I think you are more likely to have the impurity (if it is volatile) evaporate along with the water, rather than it being carried by the water molecules.

Hydrogen bonds are not that strong, and are unlikely to hold anything when only a single water molecule is involved (especially an extremely agitated water molecule). I don't know for sure though, but that's my guess.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Ignoring the quantum effects for a bit, some water molecules would be moving slowly from random chance, same for the impurity, and even if they were moving high speed in the same direction they could "kiss" gently and cling for the few nanoseconds it took to collide with something else.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

SiegeLord
Member #7,827
October 2006
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Ignoring the quantum effects for a bit, some water molecules would be moving slowly from random chance, same for the impurity, and even if they were moving high speed in the same direction they could "kiss" gently and cling for the few nanoseconds it took to collide with something else.

By this argument the impurity would preferentially stay with the water, rather than the vapor itself: water is both cooler, and denser.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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So I misunderstood the original question? He's asking if water vapor rising from liquid water will take impurities with it? I'd doubt it unless it was boiling (tossing all the molecules up in bubbles).

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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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So my question is: Does water vapor have any strong enough bonds to pull other atoms with it? (even if in small amounts.)

No, but as SiegeLord said, it's more likely for the other molecules to be evaporated along with the water - especially if the water is boiling.

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Since he mentioned minerals, I assumed he meant impurities that are solid. Alcohol distillation doesn't get rid of all the water (max. 90% alcohol, 100% alcohol has that last 10% water removed by treating chemically)

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Ben Delacob
Member #6,141
August 2005
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If you aren't talking strictly boiled water vapor, it's usually the other way around in the atmosphere. Many very tiny water droplets can stick to a pollution particle - Is surface tension a part of this/ applicable to your question? - (and reflect a significant amount of light in doing so).

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piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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<quote>Can water vapor (or other gases) carry dirt?<\quote>
No but it dose attract it. when warter vapor is mixes dust it clumps to gether making water droplet that falls from the vapor when it if to heavy to maintain its flight

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gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
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Chris Katko said:

Can water vapor (or other gases) carry dirt?

Does water vapor have any strong enough bonds to pull other atoms with it? (even if in small amounts.)

You seem to be a bit confused to the difference between atoms, molecules and particulates...

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lambik
Member #899
January 2001
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This made me think of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_chromatography is that what you were talking about or am I completely off the mark?

Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
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Having no source at all I've heard of small fish and frogs being swept up and raining down--maybe they went up in evap. But that would be extremely uncomforatble. I might be talking about waterspouts, which would be worse :-/

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Chris Katko
Member #1,881
January 2002
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I'm not really looking for a specific answer, just general ideas on the subject (and related). So gnolam, both are suitable questions to be answered.

I'm just thinking that if water boiled away, or evaporated away, would the polar bonds still be strong enough to hold on to other things like traces of salt or something else?

Also, are the instances of evaporation vs boil significant enough to make a difference? (We all know salt stays behind with a boil, but does it all? can it rain salt water? And if it evaporates "naturally", will it take more or less salt with it?)

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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No, it won't take the salt with it. Pure salt (that's not treated like Mortons "When it rains it pours" salt) will get damp and clumpy given enough humidity due to water molecules adhering and becoming absorbed.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

piccolo
Member #3,163
January 2003
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ahhh i think i see what your getting at .

can the gas form of water bond with other substances and still remain in its gasies state.

and i think the asnsewr is yes!

the desiding factors are the weight of the 2nd substance.

and all so the "stickyness" example the amount of water molucules that can be joined per substance molucule if the sub

if the ratio is to high the gas will into water state

edit: what are your reserching sounds like your trying to make a holo room like on start track

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LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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piccolo said:

what are your reserching sounds like your trying to make a holo room like on start track

I'd love to hear the reasoning behind this deduction.

Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
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Anyways to comment on the actual question I wouldn't think H2O could "carry" anything with it as a gas--I've never heard of cohesive gases, and even in liquid form the bonds are very fragile. I don't see how boiling would make the water "carry" anything. At least not individual particles. Maybe the force beneath [the solids] would fling them into the air, but I don't know how/if it would actually carry them.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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Cars on the coastlines get eaten up with salt even though they're never actually driven into the ocean.

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KnightWhoSaysNi
Member #7,339
June 2006
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(We all know salt stays behind with a boil, but does it all? can it rain salt water? And if it evaporates "naturally", will it take more or less salt with it?)

Not all of the salt stays behind because some of it turns into chlorine gas and is lost that way.

It can't rain salt water

Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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But the wave action can throw tiny salt water particles into the air, and the minuscule specks of salt left over after the water evaporates are carried inland on the wind, to be deposited miles away.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Felix-The-Ghost
Member #9,729
April 2008
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I was gonna say the same thing--but it sounded like your first statement was to say "yeah it can" but then you said it's "pushed" up and carried via wind instead of actual water particles.

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Arthur Kalliokoski
Second in Command
February 2005
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In the original boiling water scenario, it would depend how close to the surface of the water you took your air sample. Same thing on a smaller scale.

They all watch too much MSNBC... they get ideas.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

Gas can't carry particles. It's ridiculous to say that. Gas is not like liquid where the molecules can be said to act together (capillar force etc). It's kind of semantics, of course. But think of a free H2O molecule. If something would attach to it and fly away, it would have to be something much smaller than the H2O molecule so that it would be meaningful to talk about the H2O molecule carrying something. NaCl is not a molecule like H2O. NaCl is solved in water, which frees it into Na and Cl ions. But the water needs to be liquid, like visible fog. Unsolved NaCl is just salt crystals, which is more like:
...NaClNaClNaClNaClNaCl...
...ClNaClNaClNaClNaClNa...
...NaClNaClNaClNaClNaCl...
...ClNaClNaClNaClNaClNa...
...NaClNaClNaClNaClNaCl...
...ClNaClNaClNaClNaClNa...
...without any distinctive molecules.

I guess what happens with the salt eating the cars is that the waves breaking against rocks form a water spray of anything between drops and microscopic liquid water "particles". The smaller the particles are, the quicker they vaporize in the air. But each drop holds their amount of salt. And when the liquid drops vaporizes in the air, the salt crystallizes to microscopic salt particles, or salt dust. Which surely is carried with the wind.

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Jonatan Hedborg
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July 2004
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