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WAR in Georgia
Jonatan Hedborg
Member #4,886
July 2004
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Maybe Frank is one of Piccolos accounts, used to gage our reaction to stupidity for his experiments?

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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I doubt Piccolo's keyboard has the Shift key

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RB
光子「あたしただ…奪う側に回ろうと思っただけよ」
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HardTranceFan
Member #7,317
June 2006
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Frank Griffin ain't Piccolo. Piccolo's out in space testing his perpetual energy space ship. And they don't have the innernet out there yet.

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"Shame your mind don't shine like your possessions do" - Faithless (I want more part 1)

Matt Smith
Member #783
November 2000

I think .luna is a better TLD than .moon

My balls are swollen, I think I'll nuke Russia.

HardTranceFan
Member #7,317
June 2006
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Quote:

My balls are swollen, I think I'll nuke Russia.

That's a nice metaphore for firing a load...

--
"Shame your mind don't shine like your possessions do" - Faithless (I want more part 1)

axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

Quote:

I do not know the particulars on Kossovo but wasnt that a UN deal again and not one nation just invading another.

No, it's not about one nation invading another, it's about one nation being given independence (Kossovo) while another is not (Osettia).

Frank Griffin
Member #7474
July 2006

You mean to say.

Yes, it's not about one nation invading another, it's about one nation being given independence (Kossovo) while another is not (Osettia).

Was the Kossovo decision made by the UN or the USA? I assume it was the UN's desire to split them up. What does this have to do with a single country invading another if the Kossovo thing was a UN action? This could eventually reach the point of going to the UN but it has not happened yet so they are different situations at the moment.

Not much has been happening in Georgia the past few days.
Could this be the calm before the storm?

"OICWRETARDO" is what OICW wanted, so I gave it to him.

"gut feeling the people in England are poor" -Samuli
"taken out of context it's an awesome quote" - Jonatan Hedborg

Samuel Henderson
Member #3,757
August 2003
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So Russia's argument is that they want to 'liberate their citizens?'. Isn't that the age old tactic for annexing countries a la pre world war 2 times? Didn't Russia just dump truckloads of passports into Ossetia a while ago?

telegraph.co.uk said:

Russia justified its invasion of Georgia in terms of defending its citizens of South Ossetia and Abkhazi - although it only gave Russian passports to the inhabitants of the two provinces five years ago. In the past week Ukrainian politicians have claimed that Russia has been doling out passports to residents of the Crimea, which has strong allegiances to Moscow, raising fears about the Kremlin's intentions in the region.

Didn't Mevdev also say that if anyone got in Russia's way they would be crushed?

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OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Samuel: I think it's over. In my opinion it's now pointless to debate who was right and who was wrong. Now we should think about what to do to prevent this from happening. And I must say that I'm kinda worried about the step NATO took - they cut down communication with Russians till they pull out (I'm glad they're too afraid to cut it down permanently).

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Frank Griffin
Member #7474
July 2006

Strong words from the Russians.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D92M5GM81&show_article=1

The Russians threaten to do something beyond the use of diplomacy.
This would be a good time for Europe to finally show a back bone.
The situation is getting more serious now and by showing fear aka Europe, it only results in more aggressive actions from Russia since they feel they can get away with it. The USA can threaten back but everyone knows we are currently busy with other matters. Its time to push Europe out of its nest and see if they splat on the ground or can finally fly. I assume there will be a splatting sound.

"I think it's over. In my opinion it's now pointless to debate who was right and who was wrong. Now we should think about what to do to prevent this from happening"

We need to determine who is right and who is wrong in order to prevent this in the future. Criminal defense lawers would love to have a person of such moral relativism in their jury. Saying its now pointless to debate just 1 week after it happened. Jeez

"gut feeling the people in England are poor" -Samuli
"taken out of context it's an awesome quote" - Jonatan Hedborg

KnightWhoSaysNi
Member #7,339
June 2006
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I think Europe should team up with conservative Russia this time because it is obvious that the liberal US is going to lose this time. The US is being controlled by Trotskiest neocons who are spending the US into debt the same way the USSR did when it collapsed.

Matt Smith
Member #783
November 2000

OOh my back is stiff

Better nuke Russia again :)

Quote:

We need to determine who is right and who is wrong in order to prevent this in the future.

Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice. Neocon US expansionists - Goooood
Russia, Europe, Napster - Baaaaad

Forget WHO is right, and concentrate on WHAT is right. All polticians are happy to stir up trouble if it increases their personal/party power and sense of self-importance.

Thomas Fjellstrom
Member #476
June 2000
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Quote:

Bush, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rice. Neocon US expansionists - Goooood
Russia, Europe, Napster - Baaaaad

Forget WHO is right, and concentrate on WHAT is right. All polticians are happy to stir up trouble if it increases their personal/party power and sense of self-importance.

+1

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axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

Quote:

Was the Kossovo decision made by the UN or the USA? I assume it was the UN's desire to split them up. What does this have to do with a single country invading another if the Kossovo thing was a UN action? This could eventually reach the point of going to the UN but it has not happened yet so they are different situations at the moment.

USA did everything they could to make Kossovo an independent state. They pushed real hard. The UN members had no other choice. Essentially, it was a decision of the USA.

If Russians start invading country after country, then yes, I'll say it's ok to be against Russia.

Russia's case is also the same as Turkey's case invading Cyprus. In 1974, Turkey invaded Cyprus because 140,000 Cypriots of Turkish origin were supposedly "oppressed" by 700,000 Cypriots of Greek origin.

Of course, no one cares, and the USA is ok with Turkey, since Turkey is a very important ally of USA.

That's what I mean about double standards.

Frank Griffin
Member #7474
July 2006

Saying the USA is losing this one is like saying I lost the super bowl because I was cheering for the team that lost. Georgia is the one that is losing in this situation. If the liberals win in the November elections they it will be possible for the USA to lose in places like Iraq since losing and appeasement is what liberals do best.

Concepts like moral relativism is one of the greatest down falls within Europe. There are times when one side is evil.

I think the USA will probably do just as much as it did in Cyprus concerning Georgia. The USA has no land bases adjacent to Georgia so it would be difficult to do anything.

There is nothing wrong with being selective about which causes to fight for. Its called the facts of life. I would think Europe would do more in a multitude of situations, since many of the problems are happening in there own part of the world.

Europe is not bad, it is frozen in the appeasement mentality. I assume they might be a victim in the not so distant future so I will give my sympathy in advance.

"gut feeling the people in England are poor" -Samuli
"taken out of context it's an awesome quote" - Jonatan Hedborg

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Quote:

There is nothing wrong with being selective about which causes to fight for. Its called the facts of life.

Finally we agree - to be clear nobody wanted world police to take action this time.

Quote:

Europe is not bad, it is frozen in the appeasement mentality. I assume they might be a victim in the not so distant future so I will give my sympathy in advance.

I haven't noticed. To be crystal clear (although I think it's futile since others have pointed that out earlier): by Europe you probably mean EU. EU is not USA ergo it's not a federation that shares military. It's just economical union. So only thing they can do about Georgia is talking.

Same goes for UN, they do have military, but they also have really strong tradition of staying out of conflicts (Rwanda somebody?). So all they do is talking. And guess what, Russia has veto right in the Security Council.

NATO on the other hand has the power, and guess what. First you are a part of it. Second nobody wants to intervene with Russia (for obvious reasons, SS-20 are one of them...), especially when Saakashivili showed how bad it is.

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Concepts like moral relativism is one of the greatest down falls within Europe. There are times when one side is evil.

Well, then let us tell you what concept of morale do you have in the USA? Is it like this: everything USA does = good, everything other = bad?

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"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

axilmar
Member #1,204
April 2001

Quote:

There is nothing wrong with being selective about which causes to fight for. Its called the facts of life. I would think Europe would do more in a multitude of situations, since many of the problems are happening in there own part of the world.

That's moral relativism, thank you.

Frank Griffin
Member #7474
July 2006

The problem of being selective for Europe is that it selects nothing. There was a good article that talked about european defense (or lack of it). Europe cannot afford to defend itself since it spends so much on its welfare state. If Europe had to defend itself many of their governments could collapse.

I refer to Europe as a single entity even for defense because they are incredibly similar in being all welfare state and very little defense. It would be too specific to say France alone should solve x,y,z problem alone, when there are many other countries in the area that could do their part but do not.

People who are good at losing arguements love to make the always or never statements. The USA is not perfect but it is the best the world has to offer at the moment.

"Finally we agree - to be clear nobody wanted world police to take action this time."

I think Georgia wanted the world police and it is their country so I beg to differ with you on this one.

"That's moral relativism, thank you."

Wrong, it is called limited resources.

"gut feeling the people in England are poor" -Samuli
"taken out of context it's an awesome quote" - Jonatan Hedborg

Kibiz0r
Member #6,203
September 2005
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Utilitarianism.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Quote:

The USA is not perfect but it is the best the world has to offer at the moment.

Uhm that's subjective and biased point of view. I know lot of people who will laugh their ass at you if you said it straight in the eyes.

Quote:

I refer to Europe as a single entity even for defense because they are incredibly similar in being all welfare state and very little defense.

Ok we're done. We can also refer to USA, Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Panama and south american states as America - as one entity.

[My website][CppReference][Pixelate][Allegators worldwide][Who's online]
"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

Frank Griffin
Member #7474
July 2006

"Uhm that's subjective and biased point of view. I know lot of people who will laugh their ass at you if you said it straight in the eyes."

The proof is in the pudding as they say. I was wondering where those insane laughing people were.

"Ok we're done. We can also refer to USA, Canada, Mexico, Cuba, Panama and south American states as America - as one entity."

You mean you are done. Canada, cuba and parts of south america would fit in more with Europe since they are well fare states as well. Anyways you miss my point. Namby pamby well fare states can barely take care of themselves let alone anything outside their borders. Europe is a large collection of such states so if they are taken individually or together they still add up to no action. Now are we done? hehe

On one hand it would be good for the world if the USA to stop Russia in its tracks on the other hand it would be cool to see most of Europe gobbled up by Russia so I could say I told yea so, now is Russia the bad guy yet or are you going to continue making excuses for them comrad?

"gut feeling the people in England are poor" -Samuli
"taken out of context it's an awesome quote" - Jonatan Hedborg

bamccaig
Member #7,536
July 2006
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OICW said:

Uhm that's subjective and biased point of view. I know lot of people who will laugh their ass at you if you said it straight in the eyes.

Yet, if the same statement was made with <insert_any_other_country_here> even more people would laugh. ::)

KnightWhoSaysNi
Member #7,339
June 2006
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The US is just as a big of a welfare state as most European countries. Instead of poor people getting the money from the government, the military and military contractors get it. Living on a Military base is like living in a socialist country that the civilians pay all the taxes for. I don't consider anyone who works for the government to be employed because they produce no valuable goods and little valuable services for the people who pay for them to exist.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

I refer to Europe as a single entity even for defense because they are incredibly similar in being all welfare state and very little defense. It would be too specific to say France alone should solve x,y,z problem alone, when there are many other countries in the area that could do their part but do not.

Right, so for argument's sake you'll say Europe should behave as one state, then say that it's bad because it doesn't. Guess what? Europe isn't one state and doesn't act like one. And no, countries across Europe are not incredibly similar (though I'm sure none of them are close to the USA).

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The USA is not perfect but it is the best the world has to offer at the moment.

Riiiiiight.
Well, we know you think so. Now tell me, why does "the best the world has to offer" has such a pathetic public transport system? (Yes, I am well aware that the Dutch public transport system is considerably better than most).

LennyLen
Member #5,313
December 2004
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Quote:

On one hand it would be good for the world if the USA to stop Russia in its tracks

Actually, it would be preferable to see Russia nuke the USA back to the stone age so that the rest of us don't have to listen to your drivel any more.

You're both as bad as the other really.



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