Allegro.cc - Online Community

Allegro.cc Forums » Off-Topic Ordeals » Digital cameras

This thread is locked; no one can reply to it. rss feed Print
 1   2 
Digital cameras
Andrei Ellman
Member #3,434
April 2003

Hi,

I've been putting off getting a digital camera because of the constantly advancing pace of technology and price-reductions, but after realising how hard it is to get Advantix film these days and seeing some decently priced models in the local Media-Markt, I think it's time for me to get a digital camera.

While the ideals of a free market economy is supposed to mean I have lots of choice, in practice, it means that the camera-companies have flooded the market with a veritable bukkake of models and now I am completely overwhelmed. So I thought I'd ask for some advice (the store descriptions only list things like number of megapixels and zoom-amount, but there's so much more).

What I've decided to do is to spend a maximum of 200 Euros on a camera (preferably cheaper) and give it as a present to my parents when I can afford a better one, so it would have to be one that's easy to use.

One thing I've often heard about digital cameras is that they have poor battery-life. Has this problem been solved? Do digital cameras use ordinary batteries or do they use mobile-phone type batteries where you plug the unit into a wall-socket to recharge?

I've noticed that some digital cameras have a feature called PictBridge that lets you plug the camera directly into a USB-port on the printer. My parents have such a printer, but it can also directly take memory-cards. Is PictBridge over-rated? Bearing in mind that my dad has been known to insert a CD-ROM into a 5.25" floppy drive, handling memory-cards might be a bit too much so PictBridge would probably come in handy.

Another nice feature would be something that can easily change the numbering-scheme of photos, so for example if my first photo is called "001", my second "002" and my third "003" etc, then it should be easy to temporarily change the naming scheme (e.g. instead of the next one being "004", it will be "003a" followed by "003b" etc. and then change back to the regular scheme so the one after that is "004"). It's possible to do this with a shellscript to rename multiple files but mass file-renaming is way beyond my parents' tech-skills.

And finally, is “Stitch Assist” overrated?

Fire away with your advice.

AE.

--
Don't let the illegitimates turn you into carbon.

FrankyR
Member #243
April 2000
avatar

Compact digital cameras come in basically two different groups: the kind that concentrate on size and the kind the concentrate on features/customization (eg Canon SD1000 vs Canon G9). You have to decide which is more important to you. How much control do you want over shutter speed, and aperture? How important is the ability to save in RAW format, etc? Once you know these answers you can decide which 'class' of camera you're looking at.

Canon has a great site for comparing the features on their cameras here: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ProductCatIndexAct&fcategoryid=113

Quote:

Is PictBridge over-rated?

Personally I don't like features like that. To me one of the biggest advantages of a digital camera is being able to bring the pictures into [insert photo editor of choice] and adjust exposure / fix mistakes. Because of that I don't like the idea of sending the shots straight to a printer (but this is of course personal preference).

I don't have any experience with stitch assist or with various numbering schemes.

Another point to consider is low-light performance. Most compacts perform pretty poorly at high ISOs, but there is some variance from model to model, so that might be something to consider. Another great newish feature is "image stabilization" / "vibration reduction" that can do a great job of improving picture quality in poor lighting, but this may be out of your price range.

When it comes to brands you can't go wrong with any of the major players (Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc) but it seems like Canon pretty well dominates the digital point-and-shoot market right now. I have a Nikon SLR, but a Canon point & shoot.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
avatar

I have a Canon PowerShot A570IS that I got on the recommendation of a few people on here, and I love it. It even has some third party firmware out there which adds some features.

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

I like the quality of Canon PowerShot. It is also fairly easy to use. Some models can be controlled via computer and usb, some can't. I happen to own one that can't. But sometimes I borrow a camera from my school and I make stop motion animation with it.

Stitch assist is good if you need it. I guess the idea is that your stitching software does a better job if the images has been taken with a camera with a good stitch assist feature. Even if you stitch them manually in Gimp, I guess it's easier if you used the assist thing in your camera in the first place. But I guess a tripod is quite as good as any stitch assist feature in a camera. In most cases.

I guess most digital cameras use standard batteries, usually AA R6.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

Quote:

I guess most digital cameras use standard batteries, usually AA R6.

Well ... No. Mine isn't and the Canon Ixus series too.

Quote:

...PictBridge...

I second Frank Griffin as I always take a look at my photos in my favourite editor (Adobe Lightroom) before printing them. (Well, I also only shoot in Raw, which lead me to have no other choice than using an editor before being able to print them).

For the file numbering scheme, it is not really an issue as your camera will store day/hour/year in the exif tag and that some free tools (I think Exifer can do that) will allow you to name your photo using these informations (in case it does not proide you a nice naming convention).

Quote:

...Stitch assist...

You do not need a stitch assist. You need a good tripod and a working stitching software.
I am using Arcsoft Panorama Maker which is simple, easy, and produce good results but it is not free.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

HardTranceFan
Member #7,317
June 2006
avatar

In addition to the site FrankyR's posted, DPReview (Digital Photography Review) has a lot of in very depth reviews of a huge range of digital cameras.

--
"Shame your mind don't shine like your possessions do" - Faithless (I want more part 1)

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

One situation where a tripod won't replace a stitch assist is if you want to photograph a wall and you move your camera parallel with the wall between the shots instead of just rotating on one spot.
{"name":"joondalup_town_city_wall_art_graffiti.jpg","src":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/5\/75f514a678e5e753c75ff99f43293336.jpg","w":468,"h":351,"tn":"\/\/djungxnpq2nug.cloudfront.net\/image\/cache\/7\/5\/75f514a678e5e753c75ff99f43293336"}joondalup_town_city_wall_art_graffiti.jpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

Well, you don't need a stitch assist for that :-p

Anyway I don't have a stitch assist on my EOS 400D, I just have two eyes and a brain to remember from where I start and I end each photos.

Stitch assist is just a marketing tool, nothing else.

EDIT: And in that particular case, I would still use my tripod to keep the same elevation / angle, and depending of the area I have in front of the wall, I would use one of the following techniques:

  • Shooting from a distant point of view, Arcsoft Panorama Maker or any average stitching tool will correct the perspective for you.

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/595389

  • Shooting along a line, keeping the same elevation and angle. Using the same parameter and software it would produce the same final view as the first.

http://www.allegro.cc/files/attachment/595390

EDIT: I remember having a stitch tool on my Ixus 40... It's, well, shit.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
avatar

As far as battery life, my camera can take 600-800 shots without flash, or 300 or 400 with flash (IIRC, I may be off here). I'm just using 2800mah higher quality NiMH rechargables with a smart charger/conditioner.

Andrei Ellman
Member #3,434
April 2003

Hi. Thinks for the tips. I'll definitely give the camera-review sites a good look. It seems like Canon Powershot series is the most popular for my pricerange, so I'll consider a Canon. Have had a look at their website and have narrowed the choice down to about 5 models. This camera will be loaned and eventually be given to my parents, so ease of use is a criterion.

Here is my shortlist of Canon models:

  • A470: Easy to use and the cheapest of the lot. However, unlike the other models, it cannot create movies with sound (but it can still do sound-clips and silent movie-clips). Were it not for this fact, I'd probably choose the A470. Also, it's the only one without a viewfinder, which I've been told is a problem because the LCD screen is hard to see in sunny weather. Also lacks image-stabilisation.

  • A570IS: This seems to have the most features but was not designed for ease of use. Is also one of the more expensive ones and probably a bit over-the-top if giving to my parents, but I'd probably consider getting that one even if I wasn't eventually going to consider giving it to my parents.

  • A590IS: Same thoughts as A570IS

  • A720IS: Same thoughts as A570IS (has the best optical zoom of the lot and is the most expensive)

  • A580: A good compromise between the above cameras that has "Ease of use" as one of it's selling points. Also has excellent battery-life. However, lacks image-stabilisation.

Currently, the A580 seems to be winning, but the A470 is tempting with it's low price. How important is image-stabilisation? Is it a non-issue if a tripod is being used?

Also, I've discovered that there exist monopods that double as walking-sticks. Such a thing would be handy when walking in the mountains but are monopods any better than not having support in the first place (they somehow don't seem as stable as tripods)?

Quote:

Quote:

Is PictBridge over-rated?

Personally I don't like features like that. To me one of the biggest advantages of a digital camera is being able to bring the pictures into [insert photo editor of choice] and adjust exposure / fix mistakes. Because of that I don't like the idea of sending the shots straight to a printer (but this is of course personal preference).

As I said, this camera is eventually going to be given to my parents, so ease of use is of importance. Knowing them, they're likely to have trouble removing and inserting a memory-card, so using photo-editors is beyond them. They've already got a PictBridge capable printer. Fortunately, nearly every Canon camera has one.

BAF said:

It even has some third party firmware out there which adds some features.

What sort of features? Does it have something to change the naming-scheme as described in the original post?

Quote:

Stitch Assist

The cameras that both do and don't have a Stitch Assist feature come with a program called PhotoStitch. Is that a program that contains image-recognition software that can automatically adjust the photos to fit and how would on-camera Stitch Assist help out?

AE.

PS. Johan: Was that pic taken as a series of stitched photos?

--
Don't let the illegitimates turn you into carbon.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

I got a 7.4 V, 720 mAh (Li-ion) and I can take near as Baf's one, 500 with Flash, 700 or 800 with.

EDIT:

Andrei said:

Is that a program that contains image-recognition software that can automatically adjust the photos to fit and how would on-camera Stitch Assist help out?

Yeah, but I prefer Arcsoft Panorama Maker myself, even if Photostitch also came with my 400D !

Andrei said:

PS. Johan: Was that pic taken as a series of stitched photos?

He is quite a bad photographer if so ;-P Or he really have a poor camera with some strange depth of view X-D

As for the Vangards type it's better to use for capturing live video, not really usefull for a photographer.

Johnny Lee have made some works with the Vangards principe. You'll see why I tell you it's better for video.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Johan Halmén
Member #1,550
September 2001

:P

That was not a stitched image. Anyone can see that. That was just an image of an object that could be photographed using stitch assist while moving the camera parallel along the wall between the shots.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Years of thorough research have revealed that the red "x" that closes a window, really isn't red, but white on red background.

Years of thorough research have revealed that what people find beautiful about the Mandelbrot set is not the set itself, but all the rest.

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
avatar

Quote:

What sort of features? Does it have something to change the naming-scheme as described in the original post?

RAW shooting, stereo synchronization to use two cameras to create 3d images, maybe you can change the naming, not sure.

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

Andrei Ellman said:

are monopods any better than not having support in the first place (they somehow don't seem as stable as tripods)?

They are. Unless you're going for multi-second exposures, a monopod is almost as good as a tripod (but much more portable).

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

Slartibartfast
Member #8,789
June 2007
avatar

Quote:

it cannot create movies with sound

My dad had a choice of two very similar cameras, one with sound and one without (obviously, the sound one was more expensive), he went with the sound one and regretted it.

Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
avatar

Get a Canon .. and IF you want to go do some real photography ( anything more than holiday shoots) get an SLR ! sooner or later you will want to fix another lens on it . and even more the quality of the CCD in Digital SLR's is much better than those of simple cameras, I'm not talking about pixels here.

I have a Canon EOS 400D SLR :)

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

But that's not what he's after. Read the OP again.

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

FrankyR
Member #243
April 2000
avatar

Quote:

How important is image-stabilisation? Is it a non-issue if a tripod is being used?

One of my lenses (Nikon 55-200 VR) has image stabilization built into it and I find it to be very effective. It gives me 2-3 more stops. I've never tried any compacts with IS/VR, but the IS in Canon's SLR lenses is very good.

Yes, IS is a non-issue when you're using a tripod. In fact, it's recommended that you turn off IS when the camera is mounted on a tripod.

gnolam
Member #2,030
March 2002
avatar

Indeed. I have Nikon's 18-200 VRII lens, and I have the same experience - image stabilization really works. It's so seldom things actually live up to their marketing hype that I had to post that. :)

FrankyR said:

Yes, IS is a non-issue when you're using a tripod. In fact, it's recommended that you turn off IS when the camera is mounted on a tripod.

It should be kept on for monopods though.

--
Move to the Democratic People's Republic of Vivendi Universal (formerly known as Sweden) - officially democracy- and privacy-free since 2008-06-18!

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
avatar

You can attach external lenses on the non-SLR powershot cameras.

Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
avatar

I know he want's a simple camera ... But my own experience is eventually you will want to do things you can't do because you have a "cheap" camera.. so you 'll buy a new one and your old one becomes quite useless.

200 euro for any "good" digital camera is a small budget. My advice is .. wait a bit.. cameras will become cheaper (as all electronics do) and you 'll have more money to spend.

@ BAF: true but you'll probably have a fixed lens between camera and external lens.. that will distort your picture.
Besides an DSLR has more advantages.. the CCD is much better, you'll acutally see exactly what you will get on the picture and the camera has some weight.. and yes that is an advantage especially with longer shutter times.

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

BAF
Member #2,981
December 2002
avatar

I dunno, the only thing I haven't been able to do with my cheap ol' powershot is take good pictures of the eclipse with a longer exposure time. I could never justify spending that much money on an SLR, and in all cases I can think of, the photos from my non-SLR have been awesome and of more than sufficient quality.

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

Well, I can give you a whole page of arguments about why I love my CanonEOS400D with his 18-200 Tamron, and another whole page about why I think having a compact is also as good as having an SLR.

It's a near the same as programmers arguing about which language to use: Use the one who fits your need the best.

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

Indeterminatus
Member #737
November 2000
avatar

Quote:

Such a thing would be handy when walking in the mountains but are monopods any better than not having support in the first place (they somehow don't seem as stable as tripods)?

That really depends on the ground you use to photograph. In rocky environments, for example, it's not always possible to mount a tripod, especially cheaper ones (you'd need one that gives you much control for this). A monopod may let you increase shutter time a bit, but quite frankly, I don't know if it'd be worth the investment. I'm quite happy with my tripod, which so far I could mount everywhere, so I never really had the need for a monopod -- it's either a tripod or none at all for me.

If you've got shaky hands, a monopod might help, but then again, image stabilisation would be the better option, imho. The only reason I can think of why one would consider a monopod is that they are mostly easier to carry around than a "full-fledged" tripod.

I hereby recommend going for "the real deal" (a tripod).

_______________________________
Indeterminatus. [Atomic Butcher]
si tacuisses, philosophus mansisses

GullRaDriel
Member #3,861
September 2003
avatar

Indeterminatus said:

I hereby recommend going for "the real deal" (a tripod).

Even if I already stated that, follow that advisement !

"Code is like shit - it only smells if it is not yours"
Allegro Wiki, full of examples and articles !!

 1   2 


Go to: