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Space Battles with Shields (Star Trek like)
spellcaster
Member #1,493
September 2001
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Quote:

I still don't think shields should ever "recharge" but the shield's power source can..

Magic Shield
Creates a magical shield that grants damage reduction. If the remaining damage is > 0, the damage is split between the shield and the protected person / item.
The shield is active for up to 10 minutes per caster level (the shield will be dispelled as soon as the shield's HP drop to or below 0. The shield cannot be healed by other means as it's regeneration ability).
The shield has a total HP of (H * caster level), damage reduction R * caster level and regenerates (N * caster level) hit points per round.

As you can see, it's the shield than regenerates.

And here's a tech example:
Phase Shield
The phase offsets the natural phase of the person encased by it. This gives them a reflection bonus of RB to armor class. Damage is reduced by up 80% based on the effective strength of the shield.
Damage averted by the shield causes a decrease in the shields efficiency. The shield will stabilize gradually over time after each attack, gaining 5% of the maximum possible effective strength each round.

Here, the damage that can be averted by the shield isn't a function of the energy, but of the "balance" of the shield.
I know it's not perfectly worded, but I guess the intention is pretty clear ;)

--
There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots.

orz
Member #565
August 2000

I think the precise formulas for that stuff may need to be designed for gameplay purposes. Most space-flight-sim games have fairly-quickly recharging shields that block all damage while they're up, and a hull that's only damaged when the shields are at zero, ala Wing Commander. This seemed pretty obnoxious from a gameplay perspective, because it means that long dogfights have the potential to last forever, as any brief opening doesn't produce lasting effects.

It seems like you're only considering shields that absorb some or all damage. The Star Control serious used a variety of shields that had a variety of effects:

Yehat Terminators's Shield: (from SC1)
Summary: short-term invulnerability
Blocks all damage from normal damage sources, but can only be activated for brief periods, and uses the same pool of energy that you need to shoot. Also, certain rare damage sources can ignore this shield, including collisions with planets.

Utwig Juggernaught's Shield: (from SC2)
Summary: damage to energy conversion
Similar to the Yehat's shield, except for a few key differences. An Utwig regenerates energy whenever it would otherwise recieve damage while shielding, and this is the ONLY way it can regenerate energy. However, it does not require energy to shoot its guns. An Utwig, unlike a Yehat, cannot fire while it's shields are active. Thus, if an Utwig shields without getting hit, and runs out of energy doing so, it is permanently out of energy and can not shield ever again, though it can still use its gun and engine just fine. Again, certain rare damage sources can ignore this shield, including collisions with planets.

Lk Sanctorum's Shield: (from SC3)
Summary: disable collisions
Collisions are disabled for this ship while its shields are active. It can maintain its shields for a fair while. It's shields draw power from the same power pool as its gun. Damage sources that don't require active collisions can ignore this effect (such as a cloud of poison/acid or a boarding space maring that has already hit the ship, but deals damage gradually over time).

Ploxis Plunderer's Shield: (from SC3)
Summary: reflect and "brainwash" enemy projectiles
A bubble appears around the ship when the shield is active. Any enemy projectiles that hit this bubble bounce off without dealing damage. Furthermore, projectiles that bounce off now belong to the Ploxis and can hurt whoever fired them or another enemy. Homing missiles even home in on the ship that fired them. The Ploxis' shields draw power from the same power pool as its missile launcher. Laser weapons are not reflected, though their damage is blocked. I don't remember what (if anything) can bypass this shield.

Other shield-like effects in various SC games include generating mini-spaceships to fly between you and the enemy to physically block their fire, healing ones regular health rapidly, an aimable shield that blocks all damage from a direction of your choice, a shield that turns on automatically if you get hit and have enough energy and costs a lot of energy to turn on but stays on relatively cheaply until you manually turn it off, several means of teleporting your ship out of harms way, a teleporter that teleports hostile projectiles away from you, guardians that orbit your ship and shoot down incoming projectiles, etc.

For the game I'm currently working on (in which customizing your ship is important), my intention is to have several types of shields that vary primarily in terms of
1. Directionality: omnidirectional or forwards-only
2. Effect: reduce damage or deflect projectiles
3. When: always on, or only for brief bursts, or some in-between
4. Stength: how much damage they can prevent, or amount of deflection
6. Regen: how quickly / if / under what circumstances they recover after taking damage
7. Specialization: which types of damage/projectiles they can effect to what degree

Michael Jensen
Member #2,870
October 2002
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Quote:

As you can see, it's the shield than regenerates.

Right, I didn't say that didn't exist, I even gave an example of such shields (I'll cite it again, Protoss from Starcraft have these kind of shields) -- I just feel that they are wrong.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Quote:

I guess because they are shuttles, not fighters. Shuttles don't have the speed, or the turning radius to be a threat to a larger ship. Their shields can't take much damage, and normally they only have less powerfull phasers.

Technical note: in real freespace an Enterprise class ship and Spaceshuttle would have the same maneuvorability. You don't have there any friction. Also normal gun or better mass driver would be a superior weapon.

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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

Technical note: in real freespace an Enterprise class ship and Spaceshuttle would have the same maneuvorability. You don't have there any friction.

No fraction is irrelevant, it's still less maneuverable. A starship has a larger mass and therefor a greater inertia.

spellcaster
Member #1,493
September 2001
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Quote:

n Enterprise class ship and Spaceshuttle would have the same maneuvorability. You don't have there any friction

They have less energy. You need energy if you want to change the movement of a body.
Oh, there is no "Enterprise class". The original Enterprise is constitution class. The refit is of constitution-refit-class.
You can see that in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, Scotty is looking at some blueprints labeled Constitution Class (Refit).

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Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
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you could also distract the shield energy from the weapons energy and than see how much energy comes through the shield

like this:

shield energy=100 u

1st shot is 60 u

so shields are down to 40 u

second shot penetrates with 60-40=20 u
and shield will be completely down

got the idea ?

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

Michael Jensen
Member #2,870
October 2002
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Right, that was what someone originally pointed out, the problem with that, they said, is in the game play. -- something about long drawn out battles because it left too short of a gap of when you could hit them and deal damage...

I like a lot of the original ideas where some damage penetrates no matter what... it would also be cool if you could manually choose to reroute power from another system etc...

Of course thats easier said than implimented (since if you're playing with shields your ship is sitting dead in a dog fight, non-moving targets are easy to hit!) you could make it more rpg like and have engineers that get hired, and helms men also, and the better they are, the more they cost, and the better your ship manuevers when they pilot it/engineers make smarter decisions, etc...

Or it just hit me while typing, a player could define a list of actions to be taken under certain circumstances: ex1: shields get low -> reroute power from life support to shields; ex2: hotkey1 pressed, reroute power from shields to life support...

spellcaster
Member #1,493
September 2001
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Quote:

shield energy=100 u

1st shot is 60 u

so shields are down to 40 u

second shot penetrates with 60-40=20 u
and shield will be completely down

Yep, that was the basic idea. From there I added the damage to the ship even if the shield are holding, so that you can have the exploding consoles and damage reports (as seen on TV) even while the shields are still "up".

But anyway, if you want this bevahiour, you could get it easily by tweaking the variables I used. The damage to the shield = damage from weapon is more or less a specific case of the general equation given.

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OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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I was giving an example, but I still thing that there's no matter how the ship weights, if you have same engine you can move at same speed with Enterprice or Shuttle.

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Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

if you have same engine you can move at same speed with Enterprice or Shuttle.

You can attain the same speed (eventually) but not in the same time. You certainly will not have the same acceleration, and therefor maneuverability.
Recall Newton's second law, F = m a. Now we two ships with the same engin, giving the same force F. These ships have different mass, so the acceleration a = F/m is proportinally smaller for the larger ship.

OICW
Member #4,069
November 2003
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Yeah you're right I forgot about it.

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"Final Fantasy XIV, I feel that anything I could say will be repeating myself, so I'm just gonna express my feelings with a strangled noise from the back of my throat. Graaarghhhh..." - Yahtzee
"Uhm... this is a.cc. Did you honestly think this thread WOULDN'T be derailed and ruined?" - BAF
"You can discuss it, you can dislike it, you can disagree with it, but that's all what you can do with it"

Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
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Quote:

Right, that was what someone originally pointed out, the problem with that, they said, is in the game play. -- something about long drawn out battles because it left too short of a gap of when you could hit them and deal damage...

I like a lot of the original ideas where some damage penetrates no matter what... it would also be cool if you could manually choose to reroute power from another system etc...

Of course thats easier said than implimented (since if you're playing with shields your ship is sitting dead in a dog fight, non-moving targets are easy to hit!) you could make it more rpg like and have engineers that get hired, and helms men also, and the better they are, the more they cost, and the better your ship manuevers when they pilot it/engineers make smarter decisions, etc...

Or it just hit me while typing, a player could define a list of actions to be taken under certain circumstances: ex1: shields get low -> reroute power from life support to shields; ex2: hotkey1 pressed, reroute power from shields to life support...

hum I love long battles ;D
but offcourse the damage also depends on the distance (with phasers) and the shields cost energy and if the shield emitters themself are damaged the shields will be less powerfull..
by the way I made it possible to aim at specific targets on an enemy ship ( If your sensors and computer are ok that is .. ;))

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

Michael Jensen
Member #2,870
October 2002
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It would be neat to have arcade style combat like you describe. (Aiming to knock out certain things) of course you'd need a pilot, and someone to choose a target (and I don't mean simple aiming turning a turret left and right, I mean actually choosing a target on the enemy ship and going for it -- I suppose an auto lock with a "next target/prev target would do..." and it could all be done two handedly -- fly & op the computer, aim, use tractor beams, etc...

maybe with a mouse... who knows... that'd be cool -- oh and like someone said -- with zelda like away missions ;-)

Ariesnl
Member #2,902
November 2002
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That's already in it you can Target_their_warpcore like in the series ;D
and they'll and the energy output of that WILL decrease resulting in longer load times for phaser/shield energy etc..

hum a lot of people tell me to put in away team missions.. would be nice but 'm still thinking about how exactly

Perhaps one day we will find that the human factor is more complicated than space and time (Jean luc Picard)
Current project: [Star Trek Project ] Join if you want ;-)

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