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Is DOS dead?
X-G
Member #856
December 2000
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In that case your monitor, keyboard and mouse are operating systems.

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Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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No they're not. They are components of the machine, driven by the
OS to act as parts of the interface which provides bidirectional
feedback between the user and the machine.

Oscar Giner
Member #2,207
April 2002
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Quote:

I disagree. The OS acts as an abstraction
layer and interface between the human and machine.

You're confusing OS with window manager or command prompt.

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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Quote:

You're confusing OS with window manager or command prompt.

But DOS is nothing but a command prompt!

Oscar Giner
Member #2,207
April 2002
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The filesystem is the OS part of DOS.

Simon Parzer
Member #3,330
March 2003
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What about the memory management?

Oscar Giner
Member #2,207
April 2002
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AFAIK DOS doesn't have memory management.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
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I'm dumb!!

Memory management is definitely a core feature of any operating system. Without the ability to manipulate system memory, it is extremely difficult to develop for :P

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Thomas Harte
Member #33
April 2000
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I believe DOS has a memory allocation function related to its real mode segmented memory plan but is completely incapable of utilising a memory management unit - even just the segmented mmu on the 286.

List of DOS services.

Evert
Member #794
November 2000
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Quote:

AFAIK DOS doesn't have memory management.

This is really becoming rediculous...
What do you suppose function 48h, 49h and 4Bh of interrupt 21h were supposed to be used for?

EDIT: I should refresh before posting...

Oscar Giner
Member #2,207
April 2002
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That's why I said AFAIK :-X

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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[url http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system]
OS [/url]

This discussion drifted away somehow from the question if dos is dead
to a discussion about what is an operating system.
I don't know if the above link has already been posted.

Quote:

You're confusing OS with window manager or command prompt.

No i'm not. These are seen as part of the OS.

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
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What are KDE, Gnome, *box on linux? Part of the OS or just addons?

__________
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Steve Terry
Member #1,989
March 2002
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KDE and Gnome, Fluxbox, and all the others are just desktop managers, they are no way built into Linux. All are optional, so is X the manager for those clients. Linux can be ran just as "low level" as pure UNIX.

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Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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Whenever you integrate them to the system they become part of the OS.

And according to the link i've posted above. Any command prompt or shell
or whatever you want to call your 'low level interface'
(I don't know, but i think the ability to type in text through a keyboard
and directly seeing characters appear on some sort of display is pretty
high level...)
is also considered part of the OS.

[edit]
Or to express it another way:
kernel and shell(shell used as a synonyme for user interface)
might be two seperate parts, but only a combination of any two compatible
kernel and shell would make me look at it as an OS.
Even on machines that are not personal computers (like a washing machine)
there needs to be some buttons and lamps to make the 'shell' so
that together with the embedded kernel the washing machine has its OS.

Steve Terry
Member #1,989
March 2002
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Who said KDE and Gnome are "integrated". AFAIK somethign like IE is integrated into Windows, but there is nothing that says you can't uninstall gnome or even install it in the first place to have Linux function normally. You cannot uninstall IE on the other hand :-/.

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Oscar Giner
Member #2,207
April 2002
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Quote:

No i'm not. These are seen as part of the OS.

The DOS and unix command prompt/shell, and the windows window manager can be seen as part of the OS. But you were saying that's all an OS is. Anyway, when I'm talking about OS in this thread I'm refering only to the kernel.

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
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Quote:

I'm talking about OS in this thread I'm refering only to the kernel.

See my edit.
You might refer only to the kernel but it's not the common view to it.

I'm just posting the link to the definition, which i'm referring to
again: OS

HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

Common to who? Whole unix/linux world sees linux kernel as the OS, all the other things are just optional addons

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

ReyBrujo
Moderator
January 2001
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I am not one who thinks the operative system needs a user interface as one of its core members. That is what the shell is for. Otherwise, X is part of the operative system.

But you were talking about DOS. If DOS is dead, why there are projects to emulate it that are active enough?

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HoHo
Member #4,534
April 2004
avatar

to run old programs that no one updates anymore

__________
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut
MMORPG's...Many Men Online Role Playing Girls - Radagar
"Is Java REALLY slower? Does STL really bloat your exes? Find out with your friendly host, HoHo, and his benchmarking machine!" - Jakub Wasilewski

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

Quote:

The DOS and unix command prompt/shell, and the windows window manager can be seen as part of the OS. But you were saying that's all an OS is.

Where did i say that?

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

The only reason why DOS or DOS-like systems are hanging on is because they are very simplistic in comparison to other operating systems. Some are also royalty free. They are normally used for low level hardware interaction (flashing bios, running diagnostics tools), and very little else. With more complex operating systems, things can get in the way and cause problems when all you want to do is something very basic. Under DOS, all this overhead is removed and you can be certain that the end user meets the software requirements.

DOS is considered "dead" in my books, because it is not something that you would expect to find running on an end user's system. It is something that you need the end user to invoke by means of a start-up disk. Having said that, everyday tools are not developed enough for DOS in order to consider it "alive" :P
Word processors, calculators, media applications, data managers, telnet clients, or other utilities that many people use on a daily basis either
1) Cannot be found.
2) Have not been updated in years.
3) Have a severe lack of functionality in comparison to software for other OS's

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"

Dennis
Member #1,090
July 2003
avatar

Quote:

Common to who?

Common to books and internet pages that give
Classifications and terminology to the topic...
...since obviously no one is reading the information given by the link
i posted already twice now i'll just quote the most significant part
of it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_system said:

An operating system is conceptually broken into three sets of components: a user interface (which may consist of a graphical user interface and/or a command line interpreter or "shell"), low-level system utilities, and a kernel--which is the heart of the operating system. As the name implies, the shell is an outer wrapper to the kernel, which in turn talks directly to the hardware.

Hardware <-> Kernel <-> Shell <-> Applications

In some operating systems the shell and the kernel are completely separate entities, allowing you to run varying combinations of shell and kernel (eg UNIX), in others their separation is only conceptual.

Derezo
Member #1,666
April 2001
avatar

You guys are getting too picky about the definition ::)
There are a hundred ways to say what an OS is. Here's my one-liner.

An OS is a software based system designed to provide a method of using the functionality of the hardware it is installed on.

"He who controls the stuffing controls the Universe"



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