I read this article and could not believe that their last option to stop the car was turning it off. How many dumb cops are there in this world?
Much worse than that is that the diver picked up his cellphone instead of turning off the ignition and applying the breaks.
I don't think I even know any women that would be that... lame.
[EDIT] Me personally though, unless the engine was red-lining I'd just use the clutch to keep going along if I were on the highway (so long as there wasn't any traffic). But then I am someone who tends to use the clutch quite a lot, and clutch-pads failing due to heat isn't as dangerous as break pads failing, not that I abuse them..
Another person who shouldn't be driving. You should at least understand some basics about a vehicle and be able to stop it in an emergency, or else you have no business driving.
It's a prius, so no clutch. Some cars have push button start, so killing the engine isn't as straightforward (though any such OEM system I've seen you can either hold the start button in for a few seconds or hit it several times in a row to kill the ignition). Still, this is something you should know before even driving the vehicle.
could not believe that their last option to stop the car was turning it off.
I wish I had facts to back this up, but there is so much information, correct and incorrect, floating around about these topics that it's nearly impossible to find a reliable source to quote. Soooooo having said that:
Apparently you can't terminate the ignition on these cars (the ones with the stuck accelerator problems) under certain conditions ... like going 90mph. I'd be inclined to believe that this is the case, rather than assuming the 911 operator is a complete moron who didn't think to say "Have you tried turning it off?"
Apparently you can't terminate the ignition on these cars...
Please, tell me this is not true! What's wrong with the drivers? And the car designers? Well, I know they can probably sell more cars when they design them to be more "fool proof" and more suitable for complete technical idiots, when the alternative would be to make cars that actually require some common sense of the drivers. And some motoric skills, spatial awareness etc.
It's a prius, so no clutch.
What does that mean? Automatic transmission, or just automatic clutch? Do all prius models have that? Anyway, if it's an automatic transmission, you should be able to pull it to neutral. If that's not possible, the whole fucking gear box should be forbidden! If it's just an automatic clutch, it still should be possible to pull it to neutral.
Anyway, it should be possible to turn off the ignition, which of course might cause some problems with the steering and brake power. But again, that is something that every driver should be aware of. If not, use a taxi instead.
I think the Prius has some crazy continuously variable transmission setup, hence no notion of a clutch or shifting. I could be wrong, though!
So it would'n even have a single stick where you choose drive/neutral? Maybe only drive/reverse? Sure you must be able to start the engine a cold winter morning, let it idle and get a bit warm, while you clean the wind shield and windows from snow and frost. Without fear from getting hit by your car when the engine suddenly decides to rush.
Without fear from getting hit by your car when the engine suddenly decides to rush.
Yeah, like what ever happened to Herbie rides again anyway?
The thing with Priuses is that they're hybrid-drive vehicles. They have both an electric engine and a combustion one, and the decision which one powers the vehicle at any moment is made by a computer, not by the driver. This also includes controlling the clutch, the ignition, and even the gas pedal (which is, to my knowledge, about as mechanic as the gas pedal on a game controller); the driver has no direct influence on any of these.
Consequently, shutting down the power isn't as straightforward as with a conventional vehicle.
Still, I'd imagine hitting the brakes real hard would, at some point, result in stopping the thing.
So the prius is some sort of hybrid car? That explains it a bit then. I'm old fashioned, the most modern car I have driven is a ford fiesta.
The vehicles definitely need an emergency shut off of course.
What about ripping the fuse cartridges out of their little spot? Might take too much time with eyes off the road though... Man this has opened my eyes as to how bad those vehicles could possibly be.
The Prius has a shifter (park/reverse/neutral/drive), but no clutch. It's an automatic transmission with 3 input/outputs (engine, electric motor, wheels), so as others have said, the gear selection and balance between gas/electric is handled by a computer.
I could have sworn I read an article on Slashdot about 12 hours ago that said Nissan or somebody was making a thing that would ensure the engine slowed down when brake and throttle were applied at the same time, and the extra stuff would only cost $50 US. I sure can't find it now though.
The funniest thing is that Toyota claims that its not an electrical problem?
The gas pedal getting physically stuck is not an electrical problem...
the driver has no direct influence on any of these
Ok, that should hold in court.
I could have sworn I read an article on Slashdot about 12 hours ago that said Nissan or somebody was making a thing that would ensure the engine slowed down when brake and throttle were applied at the same time, and the extra stuff would only cost $50 US.
Since the throttle pedal is electronic in modern cars anyway, a simple cutoff switch would do. For which there is a switch already in place.
It's not the first time that's happened, but it's true that some people really don't belong on the road...
In Drivers Ed. we're taught that when you have a runaway car with a stuck accelerator to leave the car in gear, grip the wheel firmly and pump the breaks before turning off the car. Most cars will lose power steering and breaks when the car is turned off... It's too bad most people here are retarded and don't pay attention...
Anyways, I think maybe that guy could be trying to get out of a speeding ticket... What does that license plate look like to you. I read FRUGL DR !!! 
[edit] see the plate at 1:42, surprisingly they didn't blur it out...
The first thing you do with a stuck accelerator is smack the hell out of it with your foot, hoping to dislodge it. I've had mechanical linkages stick a few times, and this fixes it maybe 4 out of 5 times, but for that 1 in 5 it doesn't, brakes do slow it down, but not very fast, and the whole car is wallowing around like a rowboat in heavy seas. And it's terrifying to put it in neutral as well when it's your engine that's going to go past redline in a second or two after shifting to neutral. Of course newer cars have rev-limiters and suchlike, but still...
[EDIT]
I remember driving an ex-cop car (1987ish Chevy Impala) that did this and you couldn't turn the key far enough to kill the engine when it was in gear. All the other old Impalas did allow this, so it might have been something else getting in a bind as well.
[EDIT2]
The ex-cop car was ~10 years old then (1987) so it was 1977ish (350 cid)
and you couldn't turn the key far enough to kill the engine when it was in gear
Now what exact situation is it that they try to prevent to happen by this? I can't think of anything. The only situation where gear is on and someone wants to turn the key is exactly this situation, where the throttle is stuck.
As the incident showed, it is very hard to stop the car by using the brakes, even though the power brake is in use due to the engine running. I bet it is easier to use the brakes without the additional power the running engine supplies. I have a Toyota Avensis STW (some 1.8 litre, I think) and I've used the brakes without engine. After a few pumps the vacuum power is completely used but even after that it's not that hard to stop the car. Or turn the steering wheel. And I would be terrified to drive a car, the breaks and steering of which would completely depend on the running engine. While driving old cars, it has happened to me that I've lost ignition all of a sudden.
It was obviously the result of wear on the anti-theft mechanisms vs. the tilt steering stuff.
[EDIT]
For which there is a switch already in place.
Where?
The one that turns the brake lights on. It's the same switch that disengages cruise control too.
The one that turns the brake lights on. It's the same switch that disengages cruise control too.
http://www.allegro.cc/forums/thread/603335/854084#target
[EDIT]
dumbass
What are the odds of both the throttle pedal being stuck and the brake light switch breaking at the same time?
About 6 people dieing vs. the number of Toyotas on the road?
With those numbers it still qualifies as a freak accident.
Well, can I have some of your prize money, Mr. Know it All?
http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/03/02/233246/1M-Prize-For-Finding-Cause-of-Unintended-Acceleration
Back in the old days before LoJack they had a kill switch between the battery and the starter. Why not make a panic button for the Prius on the dashboard for something that kills the connection to the Electric motor dead cold. Maybe have a separate key sorta like the ones you use to activate nukes.
Back in the old days before LoJack they had a kill switch between the battery and the starter.
Back in the day, I busted many a tennis shoe trying to press the rod between the floorboard and the starter before starter solenoids were invented, but the pedal pad was gone. (1940's models in the 1970's when I couldn't afford anything beyond "free") Then they had dash mounted push-buttons to activate a solenoid (late 40's early '50's). Then they had multiple position ignition switches on the dash with a "start position" (late '50's to early '70's) until they mounted them on the steering column to integrate with the locking steering wheels. When did the LoJack come in?
The Prius already has emergency kill... Apparently hitting the brake pedal will kill the engine as well.
Also, the deal with the ignition switch is that you can't turn it far enough back to lock the steering wheel while the vehicle is in gear. You should be able to turn it back far enough to kill the engine though. You will lose power steering and brakes, but you really should be able to make due without them.
The gas pedal getting physically stuck is not an electrical problem...
Apparently several people have had their cars accelerate out of control and the pedal itself wasn't stuck, at least not by the mat or anything. And at least one of the data recorders have been verified to show that the actual gas pedal wasn't down at the time of the accident.
Makes me think theres several problems going on at once.
That still doesn't stop them from killing the vehicle, either by hitting both the gas and the brake, putting the car in 'Park' (which puts it in neutral), hitting the kill switch, etc.
There may be problems going on, but that doesn't make it totally Toyota's fault that their customers aren't smart enough to know basic safety procedures like this before driving. Then again, maybe if some more Prius owners crashed and burned, we'd have less holier-than-thou people walking around, thinking they're so awesome because they're "saving" the environment by driving their hunks of junk.
One dude was on with 911 while his car was going wild and they suggested several things that didn't work. I'd be surprised if all of your suggestions weren't already tried.
Except it was probably a media stunt. Kind of funny how once the cops got to him, he was able to shut the car off. A car that wasn't affected by any of the recalls.
The reason you should not turn off the ignition is because you loose
the ability to steer. Which can likely make things worst
You don't lose the ability to steer. You cannot turn the key far enough back to lock the wheel if the car is in gear. You lose power steering, but that won't stop you from steering.
The reason you should not turn off the ignition is because you loose
the ability to steer. Which can likely make things worst
You'll still have steering (unless the car is fly-by-wire, but I doubt it), but it won't be engine assisted. You can still steer, but the car will feel very heavy (you won't be able to turn the wheel as quickly, etc.). Similarly, you'll still have brakes, but they won't be engine assisted, so you'll be physically pushing fluid against the caliper pistons. The brakes too will feel very heavy, but if you put your legs into it you should still be able to stop. I would recommend initiating such a technique on a long stretch of straight road. 
Truth is, if the engine dies on you then you'll have to be able to steer and brake without the engine so it is possible (and very necessary; there are all sorts of things that can cause the engine to die). Additionally, the handbrake (or parking brake, depending on make and model) are essentially linked to a cable that, according to things I learned back in high school, directly applies a small drum brake somewhere along the rear axle (or similar, depending on make and model). Similar, at least in principle, to a bicycle braking system.
You don't lose the ability to steer. You cannot turn the key far enough back to lock the wheel if the car is in gear. You lose power steering, but that won't stop you from steering.
I don't know formally, but I always assumed it was to prevent you from walking away with your keys while the vehicle is still in gear. The steering lock sounds good too though. 
If your ignition is off and you turn the steering wheel the steering lock engages so you can't turn. Turning off the engine also reduces the braking ability hugely having no servo assist. Unless American cars are different to others and don't have steering locks?
Though I guess having almost no brakes or ability to turn is better than smacking into something at 90mph
The ignition on American cars generally goes like:
Turn key back toward you from "remove key" position to accessory to play radio etc. without running engine.
Turn key forward one click to disengage wheel and shift lever locks.
Turn key two clicks forward for "ignition on"
Three clicks forward to engage starter, will automatically rotate back to position two when released.
The power steering is most useful for parallel parking, you have to rotate the tires with little or no rotation so you're scrubbing the tires on the contact point of tire to road patch. At speeds of 5 mph or greater, it's much easier to turn the wheel. At highway speeds, the scrub effect is practically non-existent, so steering effort with disabled power steering is almost entirely caused by forcing the power steering fluid through the cylinder.
Also, if your power assist brakes are in working order, you should have enough reserve vacuum in the system after the engine is killed to get a couple full applications of the brakes before the assist goes away. With my car, I can pump the brake pedal 2 full times with no noticeable increase in resistance, and 1-2 more times after that before the pedal is rock hard.
Also, as Arthur said, there's a difference between ignition off and steering lock on. Even if the accessory position isn't between lock and on, there's still an in between area where the ignition (should) be off, and the wheel still unlocked.
Also, if your power assist brakes are in working order, you should have enough reserve vacuum in the system after the engine is killed to get a couple full applications of the brakes before the assist goes away. With my car, I can pump the brake pedal 2 full times with no noticeable increase in resistance, and 1-2 more times after that before the pedal is rock hard.
Why would you pump them at all? 
You wouldn't, if you were in the "stuck pedal" scenario, but he's just explaining that you have plenty of brakes even with the engine off.
Check your ignition lock again, fellows! All cars I've had lock the steering wheel only when I'm removing the key. I unlock the steering wheel by turning from position 1 to position 2. Position 2 turns power on for radio etc. But turning back from 2 to 1 never locks the steering wheel, no matter how much I turn the wheel. Not until I remove the key, I hear a click from the lock, which will eventually lock the wheel if the wheel is turned.
I'm not sure. I know the wheels of cars I've driven lock if the ignition is <= 'off' position (if turned). In most cars, the key can't be removed unless in the 'off' position. The few cars that have allowed it in > 'off' position (I think they've all been Ford's thus far) have felt like junk to me.
Disclaimer: I am a little drunk, but maybe I can confirm that tomorrow, at least with my '95 Grand Prix.
The japanese cars I've had have locked the steering wheel in the all off position even with the key insterted, however they have needed some extra safety measure to turn there, the Mitsubishi needed a button prssed before it turned and on the Toyota I needed to push the key inwards. Both Peugeots and the Fiat locked the wheel when removing the key.
I remember what my big brother told in late 70's. He drew a VW beetle and he heard some strange noise from front wheels. He suspected the bearings and to hear better he turned off the engine while the car was rolling. But since that's not what one does on regular basis, as a reflex he pulled off the key from the lock. And that way locked the steering. He panicked but managed to put it back and unlock the steering before anything happened. So even the good old Beetle had what I would consider normal behaviour of the ignition/wheel lock. The steering remains unlocked until you remove the key. Unless you got those extra knobs you have to push. Or push the key itself down.
BTW, did Saab 99 have a steering wheel lock? I remember the ignition lock was strangely placed near the gear stick and hand brake. And you couldn't remove the key before putting gear on reverse. So a thief couldn't drive away the car without breaking the lock, but the car could have been towed away if someone just kept the clutch pedal down.
No. It locked the gears in reverse. The 90, 99, 900, 9000, 900NG, 9-3 and 9-5 all had that, i.e. Pretty much every model after the 96.
Speaking of Saab, I think it's admirable when they reuse the model names.
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Saab 95, 1963.
3 cyl. 2-stroke!
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Saab 95, 2009.
Ok, I think they try to use 9-5 instead of 95, but it's very commonly called Saab 95. When I hear Saab 95, I think of the funny uneven sound of a 3 cyl. 2-stroke engine. And lots of blue smoke. Is this the reason Saab went down? They should have reused number 96 instead, which was a bit improved model with a 4-stroke V4.
Two strokes from the 60's commonly needed 20:1 oil to gas ratio, which made them smoke so much. And the Ford Crown Victoria as well as the Chevy Impala retired the names for awhile before bringing them back.
"9-5" != "95". Around here even colloquially they're different. The 95 is "ysivitonen" ("nine-fiver") while the 9-5 is "ysiviis" ("nine-five").
20:1 oil to gas ratio, which made them smoke so much
I'd reckon. 
When did the LoJack come in?
In the early 90's, but its not a killswitch instead its a homing beacon for a car.
Why can't they revoke the licenses of these people, please!
It's supposedly proven to be a hoax now
As suspected.
Also, I never did realize how HIDEOUS the interior of the Prius is. I mean seriously, how could you even remotely like it? 
It's supposedly proven to be a hoax now
Yay! Wheres my Nobel Peace prize? 
I just saw an ad on TV where a Toyota dealership (I think; I wasn't paying much attention) advertised that their mechanics are trained to repair the sticking accelerator pedal problem...
I don't see what's so hard about fixing it... is there not an official fix out from Toyota yet? A sawzall would do the trick nicely.