How many of you guys want to customize your character stats, such as class, outlook, etc etc in the beginning of the game or are is it ok if there is just "some" guy.

It really depends on the game.

In Dungeon siege, you customize your apperance, and your actions throughout the game determine what class you become (if you can call them classes).

Neverwinter Nights and other DND games require you to choose at the beginning and stick with it. Kindof annoying in my opinion, because I usually restart several times until I get the character class I like.

Final Fantasy XI allows you to choose a class at the beginning of the game, but you can change your class later if you so wish, or even take a completely different class and combine it with your current class.

It really depends on the game and how the inner mechanics work.

Ok. So in generally it is good to have adjustable character..

You could try something like Tibia or Dark Ages where you choose your class later on when you level up.

In respect to the rules of D&D, changing class is not a option for humanoid and mixed breed characters (i.e. elves, dwarves, half-orc, half-elven, etc. etc.). Likewise humans do not have the ability to be multi-classed characters.
In any event if you introduce changing classes in your RPG I suggest you impose restrictions and/or penalties for doing so. If not the changing classes bit will probably get out of hand and/or abused for convenience, power and/or can lead to ruined campaigns.

Didn't those rules change in the 3rd edition of AD&D rules?

3rd addition changed lots of stuff, but most of the core and original stuff is partly intact.
Multi-Classed and dual-classed character rules are the same.
But that can't stop a DM from granting a player a wish, but usually a good DM would veer from that, impose severe penalties, and/or make an example out of him/her to show the rest of the campaign that he isn't f***ing around.

Are you really sensitive about dual-classing and multiclassing?

No because it is in the rules and they are fine:
Humans: Dual-Class capable
Humanoids: Multi-Class capable
I am against going against the rules for personal gain, advantage, or to hinder a campaign. But everything comes down to the DM and how well he can handle the world and the players.

So because someone is human, they're unable to use three classes? But anything from an imp to orc to half-santainion has no problem? DnD as a role-playing system, confuses me.

I think it's just fine to not be able to customize if it fits the game. If you're Joe Guy (tm), then you can't really change him. You're picking up at a part in his life. But if you're playing yourself, then you probably want some options.

My god, the lot of you are arguing about AD&D rules.

They're rules.
Go read them.

Bah!

I like 1 main a character that has unique stats and develops throughout the game. I don't like generic characters, or even a group of characters that you can choose from before you start the game. That's just because I like a game that has a plot, and characters that grow and change based on the plot.

guys with random stats going through missions isn't all that exciting. There has to be a reason why his magic sucks, or his weapons are weak, and then the plot takes him though that.

Humans can be any class and can reach any level within that class. Semi-human races have level restrictions and class restrictions: dwarves can't be wizards, for instance. This is already an advantage over the demi-human races.

Actually, the AD&D rules are more like guidelines (that you'd probably do well to follow but can ignore if you so want - as long as you're conistent). The DM can always overrule whatever rule is given in the books and use houserules, but s/he has to announce that beforehand.

I agree. Freely formed characters work well in a situation where there is a dungeon master to set the stage and shape the adventures. Computers make for very poor dungeon masters. A character with a given set of attributes works best IMO for a computer RPG, simply because it limits the number of options. And anyway, if you don't like playing a mage, then don't play a computer game that says `in this game you will play the apprentice mage Ajegxiw who...'

Morrowind gives you a lot of freedom to choose. You can choose almost everything about you...

...But, as Mark said, it leaves the plot pretty generic. Morrowind is a great game though, I'm waiting for the sequel

OT: The sequel is coming soon. I cant wait, so good graphics, gameplay....

What I want to know about the book D&D is how to determine the 'positions' of characters

I like customising my character

Huh? Please explain... what do you mean by positions?

Well it is obvious that an archer / mage can attack from a distance, but how do you determine whether the melee enemy is 'close enough' to a target?

Depends on the weapon. Weapon ranges should be listed somewhere in the equipment guide in the player's handbook. I think you can more or less assume that the range is given well enough by the length of the weapon.

We usually use a hexagonal grid with pawns on it when we do battles, and for melee range we just let one character be in range if they're on adjacent hexes. Works quite well enough. If there is a problem, I just either decide if something can or cannot be hit (depending how compassionate I am with regard to my players) or just throw some dice to make up my mind.

I dont know if I could bring myself to playing book D&D. I play NWN (which I like), but the combat dialogue would fly! I wouldnt want to do all that dice rolling

Well, it's not something you should feel you should do. It's a very different game, mostly. To me, pen&paper dungeons&dragons is about having fun with a bunch of people and thinking of what sort of quest and puzzles you want them to solve (I once had tremendous fun running my players through a magical maze with anti-periodic boundaries).
At least as far as I'm concerned, the emphasis is more on roleplaying your character than about getting that next quest or advancing that level - which makes it very different from a computer game.

Well, most of the dice rolling is done by the DM anyway. You get used to it though... we used to take a long time resolving combat at first, but now it moves rather quickly.
Besides, it's quite fun to see your players turn pale in situations like `ah... so you enter that dark room? Ok, lets see how dexterous you really are. Give me 1d20.'

Did you just speak another language?

With games like D&D (and other pen&paper type games), the main point of it is roleplaying. You play the role of your character (when you talk to your friends next to you, it's usually as the character, unless the game is on hold or you specify it's out-of-character (OOC)). You go through the quests with your playing partners as your character. Whereas most computer games, the point is to control your character to get him/her/it through the game.

No, I don't think you fully appreciate the difference between a pen-and-paper RPG and a computer RPG. You're not alone though - I know a lot of people play Dungeons&Dragons as `Diablo without a computer' or start characters off at level 25 (! - I'm not kidding!)... which is really not the sort of thing that makes it fun in my opinion. At least, I can't see it being fun.
For what makes a pen&paper RPG fun, what Kitty Cat said.

Okay. I think thats enought for that. But then next question, how much small detail functions are good idea to have in rpg? (Like cutting down wheat, getting water and make bread in owen and then sell or eat it)

This entirely depends on your game. I'm a fan of saying that the option to do this should be there if the player really wants it or is free to ignore it if that is what he wants.
In practice, for a computer role playing game, I'd just drop this - especially if it's a project you do solo. Limit things like this to rare or special items, such as magical potions.

I dont like that

Its like RuneScape

Actually i picked up from Ultima 7... it might not be wheat.. but someting like it.

Zimppa: I see you have come back and are taking another stab at RPGs:). I would say include that option to get two items to make something, but have a quick little 'quest' to make the player aware of the option and then that will let them know that that option is in the game until they have a reason to use it later in the game if any reason presents itself.

Also, make sure that they 'quest' points out that this isn't a necessity so that players don't think they have to do that in order to get food during the game.

Err.. what do you mean by me stabing RPG's?

Yes Pen and paper role playing is far more extensible, flexible and enjoyable then to follow a story/character RPG, but there are exceptions. That also reminds me of the huge groups of people playing Vampire the masquerade throughout an entire city thinking they are malkavian or something hehe.

The problem is are you planning a MMORPG or follow character/story type game?
If it's story/character following then that would completely destroy the RPG and any desire to continue to play since the story comes to a standstill.
If it's a MMORPG you can add secondary skills like blacksmith, cook/baker, bar/inn keep, guard duty, etc etc. but it should be completely optional and not as rewarding as going out and campaigning with others on quests, massive pillaging and/or killings.

An idea that we are going to implement is a weather system that influences the magic. For example when rain falls, the electric shocks are very powerful, but fire misleads the ions and therefore electric shocks are weak when the air is extremly hot. Psychological attacks are very strong when it is very quiet. The opposite of that is a new magic class we will introduce: Chaos. Chaos mages are capable of doing a lot of damage when it is loud, people panic and the environment is full of fear.

How about using this idea in your game? I am not territorial about my ideas, however I do not see an opponent in you, which should express my lack of respect, but I look forward to another good game...

You have some good points there Micah Crow... I just might do something like that. But i was kinda more talking about usable things. Magic is one thing differend completely.

Ups, I am sorry. There is a logical mistake:

I meant:

it should NOT express a lack of respect

Sorry again

I try not to mind about such things anymore. It was Owet bussines. But now i am off to tee and bisquit..

Zimppa: What I meant was that if I remember right you were making a series of games based off Ultima (which I know is your favorite game). I saw somewhere that Ultima was a RPG (which I could be wrong on what I read cause I've never played Ultima) and I remember your first attempts at making Ultima-like games (name of your series escapes me right now). Since you where making Ultima type games I thought you were taking another try at RPGs but if I'm wrong in any way I apologize now. Since I was your spell checker on the OwetSoftware site:).

Spell checker... err.. Ok. Harbinger... Harbringer.. or who?

Oh and.. Owet does not excist anymore. Only in our memoirs.

Oh and then i need to hear next opinion from you guys.. What about Books and reading stuff in Games? I mean love myself books in rpg's and i have made U3 to have very adaptive system for books. So.. What about books in RPGS?

Morrowind.... 3 million different books to read. There's just too many of them:)

I doubt that they are "Differend".. Merely Same books in differend places perhaps?

Oh well, thats true. But it is really a decent amount of different books.

Yeah i thought something like that.. I was planing for my rpg about 100 - 200 DIFFEREND books. Some of them offer tips for secrets in the game world.. others are for background story and few for the story itself.

*different.

Thats exactly like a professional game do. Your game will go right to the top.;)

Yeah right.. Well. I will try to find spellcheckers... Volunteers? (Damn its not monday).

I'm a decent English talker. And may be of some support:)

speaker.

But do you have time for it? (What an stupid question, why would we be talking in this forum like chat if you wouldnt have time)

Oh and please give some comments on questions:
Small detailed functions ingame?
Books, lotsa books in RPG?
Character creation, how complex?

Small details are the ones that count.
IMO I prefer as much character customization as possible.
Books, not huge 200 page books. Something more of a 5 page book, and many:).

And, well. I could help you. A side project from my secret project.

Yes. Maybe you can help. If you want to. I mean any aid is welcome.
Do you happen to have.. Messenger? E-mail? (Dont want to flood allegro.cc foorums)

I have two mails, sent in PM. You know, I dont want spam:P

Gotcha..

Oh and please give some comments on questions(3'rd page, lost comments):
Small detailed functions ingame?
Books, lotsa books in RPG?
Character creation, how complex?

Great, you've given me an idea, if I ever make an Aoni RPG it'll have libraries, unique books and scrolls of knowledge etc. But most importantly a shitload of books with just random world knowledge that you can find in every library.

Yep, sounds like Ultima Morrowind has a lot of books too, but I think Ultima gets the grand prize.

Zimppa: yeah I used to be known as Harbinger.

Nice to hear from you. Yeah i have decided to try once again. But this time there are no Owet policicy taking any effect. Just plain joy of coding.

Harbinger vs Death Gauge
hmm
I think I like DG better actually.

Hmm.. I am not getting much "comments" on the questions. I should have named this topic better.

Small detailed functions ingame?
Books, lotsa books in RPG?
Character creation, how complex?

It is just for making my rpg better. I need comments.

1. Better definition please... (might be in thread, but I don't wanna search for it)
2. Yes
3. I don't like complex creation process, I want freedom and like to get started with the game quickly. I'm more into having an advanced skill tree in the game. So you can mix and match skills to your own liking.

Trezker: Skill tree.. like in Diablo?

Yeah, like in Diablo, but more.
And perhaps not even choose a class when you start the game...

Another idea is to have it like in Rage of Mages, no levelups, no skill choosing. You simply advance in the skills you use automatically.
Though I'd add a skill selection anyway, so to be able to use healing you have to learn the basics first, from a book, scroll or person.
But once you've learned a skill it gets stronger automatically when used alot. I guess it would then be a good idea to let the player choose his first few skills on creation.

And as for the small detailed functions.. Like how small and detailed functions should be there for the "usable" items ingame. Like using flour and water to make bread .. and heat it in owen.. and then perhaps eat or sell it. Ofcourse this is just an "bonus" not a must.

play Golden Sun. i know it's not a pc game, its a gba game. but in my opinion its the best rpg around cuz you can equip items to change your class, and also collect djinn to change your class and spells and stats. i reckon if you wanna program rpgs, making a game like golden sun would be a brilliant place to start.

Read this reply. I wrote it when I felt myself revolutionary (that is, when school was a much easier bundle and full jobs were still foreign to me). Maybe you can find something of your liking.

I quote it every other time someone posts asking for ideas about RPGs

The master.. i am not.. "starting".